Let's talk Air Conditioners (Phoenix: sales, houses, buy)

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by Zippyman

Those are all going to come in at nearly double the cost of an Amana/goodman unit. I've installed several goodmans and had no problems with them - the Copeland scroll compressor is the heart of the unit, and it's the same design in all the major brands. I had *major* problems with a very expensive Lennox furnace a few years back, and I wouldn't allow another lennox product to be installed in my house if it was free.

I've been running an 18 seer two-speed goodman at my house for three years now and it's been quiet and reliable, and it cost about half what a trane or American standard would have at the time.

If it makes you feel better to spend too much money, buy a fancy brand, IMHO, they're just appliances.

Well, we have two Carrier units that our builder (Fulton) had installed (by Chas Roberts), so I might be a little biased. The other builder we considered (Shea) uses Trane AC.

[sells500]

Yes I had a trane price of $20,000 for 2 units installed, I do want the highest quality I can get ,but can't afford that kind of cash unless I break them up by a couple of years and hope 1 of them will make it 2 more years, it's a gamble, but my luck as I am installing 1 replacement the other one will die...lol. I really like what I am being told about the amana and my installer states he has had no issues with all of his installs etc. and the warranty is great! I just want to do my due diligence and make sure I am hedging my bet towards a really good unit. Every time I look at a review for any of the manufacturer's mentioned I see 5 good reviews and 5 terrible reviews including Trane.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by sells500

Yes I had a trane price of $20,000 for 2 units installed, I do want the highest quality I can get ,but can't afford that kind of cash unless I break them up by a couple of years and hope 1 of them will make it 2 more years, it's a gamble, but my luck as I am installing 1 replacement the other one will die...lol. I really like what I am being told about the amana and my installer states he has had no issues with all of his installs etc. and the warranty is great! I just want to do my due diligence and make sure I am hedging my bet towards a really good unit. Every time I look at a review for any of the manufacturer's mentioned I see 5 good reviews and 5 terrible reviews including Trane.

I think it has more to do with paying for the name and advertising than paying for quality anymore. Do you sweat this kind of thing buying a refrigerator? It's virtually the same with ACs. They are just appliances like someone said above. Same parts, same manufacturers, same country of origin. When you go to sell, no one is going to pay a nickel more because you have a Trane versus an Amana. SEER sells though, so you ought to put your money into a more efficient unit instead of a name plate.

[Sco]

I bought a Trane XL20i last year and am very happy. Including some minor duct work, the split system cost about 12k. It runs in low power mode most of the time and the larger compressor will kick on for a few minutes when it is very hot.

I have seen a significant decrease in my APS bill, the new system is saving me at least a $100 a month during the summer. My electric bill for July was slightly less than $100, 2000 sq ft, thermostat set at 75 degrees all day everyday.

[sells500]

Thanks,
I think the info. I am getting here is confirming what I have been told regarding parts are the same etc. The 3 things I have focused on are SEER: getting the highest I can afford, split system high/low fan settings and warranty all of which the amana has. Ponderosa...I do attack every purchase in the way I am with this one, because I do believe there is a difference, it's funny you mentioned fridges as I am in the market for one of those too and I found that kitchen aid makes a horrible product that I had found ALL negative feedback on . In the case of a/c's though it appears to be warranty and installation. I am hoping my installer is actually as good as he says he is, I will probably ask him for a listing of references I can call and then hope he doesn't get put off by that too much.

[Zippyman]

The top of the line Amana (18 seer, 2-stage compressor, variable speed blower + fancy-pants touch-screen thermostat) can be ordered over the net for ~$4200 in the four-ton size, a little less if you need a smaller unit. That price includes delivery to your door - according to some of the Hvac guys I've spoken with, they claim those prices are lower than the installers get here in Phoenix. Apparently, south florida is a highly-competitive market for Hvac manufacturers, so they get better pricing.

Here's where I got mine.

Heat Pumps | Air Conditioners | Gas Furnaces | Wholesale - Communicating Systems

If you were quoted $10k, know that you're paying $5800 for labor, overhead + profit.

[Voebe]

That's the kind of think I'd check Consumer Reports for.

[wit-nit]

We had a Trane 19i 4 ton installed 4 years ago with some minor duct work done and it's the best unit we've ever had. It's on 24/7/365 at 74 degrees. It runs very quietly, dehumidizes the house, filters the air for allergens and costs less about 1/2 to run than what the rusted out Carrier unit it replaced. Cost around $9000.00 including a crane to drop it on it's pad plus a separate load interrupter that was installed outside near the unit. Our utility bill for 2000 sq ft house averages under $150.00 per month. It came with a 10 year warranty too. So far we've never had to have any service work done.

[DellNec]

Due to the extreme heat of Phoenix and the abnormally long cooling season, central A/C systems last on average about 7-10 years before they need to be replaced or have major repairs done to them. The extreme desert climate really shortens the life of these systems. Sometimes they last longer than 10 years but on average you are looking at 7-10 years.

The only proper way to design your system is to have a professional HVAC engineer do a load calculation on your home, engineer the system, and come up with a professionally designed system. Otherwise you are just shooting in the dark and throwing money into the wind. A/C systems that are overbuilt will short-cycle and ones that are under built will run all day long and cost you a fortune and fail earlier.

Depending on the size of the home, orientation to the sun, insulation, windows, roofing, etc., your electric bill will vary. I've seen 2,000 sqft homes run a $500 a month electric bill during summer and 4,000 sqft homes run a $300 a month electric bill.

Most Phoenix homes put the HVAC ductwork OUTSIDE of the thermal envelope of the home (aka - the attic) and this is a horrendous design in terms of energy usage.

Don't neglect the heating part of the system either. You will have 4 months of heating to deal with as nighttime lows during winter can get into the upper 30s

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by DellNec

Due to the extreme heat of Phoenix and the abnormally long cooling season, central A/C systems last on average about 7-10 years before they need to be replaced or have major repairs done to them. The extreme desert climate really shortens the life of these systems. Sometimes they last longer than 10 years but on average you are looking at 7-10 years.

The only proper way to design your system is to have a professional HVAC engineer do a load calculation on your home, engineer the system, and come up with a professionally designed system. Otherwise you are just shooting in the dark and throwing money into the wind. A/C systems that are overbuilt will short-cycle and ones that are under built will run all day long and cost you a fortune and fail earlier.

Depending on the size of the home, orientation to the sun, insulation, windows, roofing, etc., your electric bill will vary. I've seen 2,000 sqft homes run a $500 a month electric bill during summer and 4,000 sqft homes run a $300 a month electric bill.

Most Phoenix homes put the HVAC ductwork OUTSIDE of the thermal envelope of the home (aka - the attic) and this is a horrendous design in terms of energy usage.

Don't neglect the heating part of the system either. You will have 4 months of heating to deal with as nighttime lows during winter can get into the upper 30s

Are you even in Phoenix? Where are you getting this stuff?