diversity? Racism? (Phoenix, Mesa, Glendale: camp, restaurant, legal)

[bigtallredhead]

Originally Posted by Arizona Annie

I'm sorry, but I don't agree. I had a neighbor once who was very racist. He never spoke openly about it except to people inside his home and his club. I couldn't stand to be around the guy. Even as a kid, I knew what he was spouting was pure nonsense. We learned from his daughter when she grew up and moved out that "he was worse when he wasn't trying to be polite for company". Luckily, she was smart enough not to buy into her father's hatred and therefore didn't continue the hatred, nor did she pass it on to her children. I think she was the exception and not the rule. Closet racists perpetuate the hate too.

By the way, racists come in all races. You mentioned in another post that not all bikers are racist (I agree) but you seemed to try and validate that statement by saying "Many of them are Hispanic or Native American" as if that means they can't be racist. I'm glad for you if you have never come across a Hispanic or Native American racist, but they do exist.

Agreed 100% -I gave you rep for this post. -Emil.

[bigtallredhead]

[quote=pynkpanther;1922958]the person that killed him couldn't care less about what he preached. neither malcolm nor mlk were racist, they were against abuse and hated the people that abused them. don't mistake malcolm for muhammed. when 90% of white america not only hates you but would kill you if given the chance, i wouldn't call your reaction "racist".[/QUOT

Racism was pervasive back then in the U.S. (yes I know about not just Jim crow in the south but all over the country) Racism is still very widespread here, but your statement above is a WAY overgeneralization/exudation that smacks of racism itself.

Confrontation and acting out against injustice is NOT a racist. MLK was the opposite of a racist, -he was against racial and other abuse and was an anti-racist to the core.

I also do not believe that either MLK at least would have ever made a statements like that above. Malcolm I don't know, but I know he fought racism and he did see the light adventualy. I do believe the U.S. government was involved in both killings, I do not buy the "official" story in either case.

[Arizona Annie]

Originally Posted by cxray

i don't agree with racism either. I wish he wouldn't be racist but unfortunately that's America. People have different views. However, I think everyone should be treated with respect openly. I feel that is the least I'm owed.

Let's be frank here, where do you think the racisms begins? If you grew up Hispanic and Native American, you would grow to hate whites too. These people were discriminated against first. Whites are the overwhelming majority in this country. They have power and run this country so I think they can have some empathy in regards to why some of these minority groups are racist. Yes, there are racist minority groups but the word minority should be emphasized. Change can only realistically be initiated if the majority initiate it.

Yes, I know you don't agree with racism. I'm sorry if I gave you the wrong impression. I agree everyone should be treated with the respect they earn. Openly and privately. I don't respect just for the sake of it. For example, I find it hard to respect people who disrespect others.

Actually I don't understand Hispanic or Native American racists, anymore than I understand any racists. If we were to believe if you are the object of racism (or your ancestors were) then it should be understood for you to be racist, then under that logic the U.S. would be completely full of racists. Thank goodness it doesn't work that way. At some point in time, nearly all (if not all) people have been discriminated against because of their race or culture. I can have empathy for others, without condoning the perpetuation of bigotry or racism.

[bigtallredhead]

Originally Posted by cxray

i don't agree with racism either. I wish he wouldn't be racist but unfortunately that's America. People have different views. However, I think everyone should be treated with respect openly. I feel that is the least I'm owed.

Let's be frank here, where do you think the racisms begins? If you grew up Hispanic and Native American, you would grow to hate whites too. These people were discriminated against first. Whites are the overwhelming majority in this country. They have power and run this country so I think they can have some empathy in regards to why some of these minority groups are racist. Yes, there are racist minority groups but the word minority should be emphasized. Change can only realistically be initiated if the majority initiate it.

the people who have power and run the U.S. are MOSTLY "white". But the majority of individual "white" people in the U.S. are not among the powerful or wealthy. Many (a sizable minority) are even among the weak and marginalized. -Emil.

[bigtallredhead]

Another great post on you part!

Originally Posted by Arizona Annie

Yes, I know you don't agree with racism. I'm sorry if I gave you the wrong impression. I agree everyone should be treated with the respect they earn. Openly and privately. I don't respect just for the sake of it. For example, I find it hard to respect people who disrespect others.

Actually I don't understand Hispanic or Native American racists, anymore than I understand any racists. If we were to believe if you are the object of racism (or your ancestors were) then it should be understood for you to be racist, then under that logic the U.S. would be completely full of racists. Thank goodness it doesn't work that way. At some point in time, nearly all (if not all) people have been discriminated against because of their race or culture. I can have empathy for others, without condoning the perpetuation of bigotry or racism.

-Emil.

[bigtallredhead]

Originally Posted by Arizona Annie

When people hire people and pay them sub-standard wages and no benefits to do back breaking work in order to line their own pockets, it's called exploitation. We as a country are exploiting hard working Mexican day laborers (especially, I think, in Arizona).

I wonder why you think people should not believe the English language should be learned by those living and working in this country. Do you think then it should be everyone elses responsibility to learn Spanish? In Arizona, people who serve the public in many areas and for many different types of jobs are expected to know Spanish to obtain a job. Should this be so? Just because someone thinks Mexican people in this country should learn English, does not mean they are racist. I think we have a problem in this country with people throwing that word out callously.

There is some genuine racism/bigotry against mexicans and those of Mexican decent here (made a lot worse unfortunately by illegal immigration).

However, I agree 100% with your post above-!!

[bigtallredhead]

Originally Posted by pynkpanther

you nailed that one on the head.
actually, i wouldn't discriminate against a person based on their being or not being a citizen...if they do a good job, why not pay them what they ask? i cannot support america's selection of who can become citizens and who are not welcome to step foot in this country. those decisions have nothing to do with me or mine...the fact that haitians and cubans are not welcome here have nothing to do with me so i do not support wholeheartedly who this current administration deems "worthy" enough to enter the usa.

Cubans have been given special treatment here, hardly a disfavored group. actualy. Now with haitians you are more right about that, but we still get many legal Haitians. In an ideal world I would support an open border as well. But I don't think we can survive as a country that way now. the U.S. need to become a lot more self suficiant and stop trying to be an empire. We need to LOWER our resource consumption as well as population in the LONG term. We use to much (on average) in the U.S., and are too unequal. We need to plan for SMART decline and stop living beyond our means.

Otherwise, we are going to be in very big trouble. I suspect we will be in then not too distant future.

[Arizona Annie]

Originally Posted by TurcoLoco

I hate every race and everyone equally till they give my posts a positive point!!

I know I can always count on you for humor amongst the seriousness Turco. Just because you asked so nicely , I tried to give you a positive point, but alas I have given you one too recently. So this will have to do.
AA

[Arizona Annie]

Originally Posted by bigtallredhead

There is some genuine racism/bigotry against mexicans and those of Mexican decent here (made a lot worse unfortunately by illegal immigration).

I agree. It is very unfortunate. I wish it wasn't so.

[afghaniprinzess]

Ok its really funny that everyone keeps mentioning that afghans/iranis are considered WHITE. Yes I may look as white as any other american....I have relatives that have blonde hair and blue eyes....that is NOT the point though...I've experienced the most racism because of my religion (being Muslim) not only after 9/11 but before that too...it doesnt matter how WHITE you are and that should not even be brought into the discussion because like i said before..the racism ive dealt with has not been from "white" people only...Many muslims who are the whitest of white such as Yusuf Islam (formerly Cat Stevens) have experienced racial profiling and racism...etc

ARIZONA ANNIE- Sorry but I am going to disagree with you...your definition of assimilating is not the definition most people have...it would be great if people justed wanted someone to assimilate by respecting the flag and being a good citizen etc...but that is not reality.

You may be one american who does not like to drink or do the other things i mentioned but MANY that I have met will make you feel like an outsider (despite being born here) if you dont partake in any of the things I and CXRAY wrote about. I am definetely not generalizing...there are a few americans I have met who respect me for who i am but OVER ALL..whether in high school...college....at work...etc MOST of the people I know...a big part of their lives revolve around the things I mentioned such as hanging out at bars on the weekends and dating etc and if you say you dont do that they do think you are less american. My teachers seriously thought there was something wrong with me and made me go see the school counselor when I said I wasnt going to the prom or homecoming in high school. Ive felt like an outsider my whole life growing up here...because if someone does want to practice their own beliefs or hold on to certain morals their parents have taught them they arent considered a real american or "normal"....I cant count how many times someone asks me where I am from and I tell them I was born and raised in California and then they say "no, I mean where are you REALLY from?" Now its gotten to the point where I just answer saying I am from Afghanistan because if I say I am just american born in California they dont believe that...because I dont "look" american or do things regular 24 year old american girls do.

CXRAY- I know what you mean by the sikhs you know wearing a turban...there are many Muslim women in my family and friends that cover their head (wear the hijab) and they were born and raised here however they are treated like an outsider and obviously experience racism in many ways every day because they choose to practice a part of their religion and be modest but they are called oppressed or viewed as backward etc.

So the point is that its not only about the color of your skin or the color of your eyes...in my personal experience its more about my religion and beliefs that ive always felt like i wasnt american going through high school and college and even today....unfortunately in MOST situations you do have to assimilate to fit in...and there are a small percentage of people who will accept you for who you are...but thats not common.

Its interesting that you brought up mormons cxray, the few mormons ive met are probably one of the only groups of people that have respected me for who i am. Maybe I should move to Gilbert