Teen Cuts the Arm Off An Iconic Saguaro (Scottsdale, St. Johns: crimes, law)

[cacto]

Originally Posted by Woodrow LI

There are several of them

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Of which the Saguaro National Park is one of

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I appreciate wildlife refuges, national monuments, state and national parks, however I just want the land protected and off limits to any travel but feet. No visitor centers, roads, or guided tours. Just desert. Sonoran National Monument is a pretty good one for that.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by observer53

This has nothing to do with "what people in Scottsdale think". It's state law. Contact your legislators if you think it's inappropriate.

And, the arm won't grow back, they don't do that. And, it won't grow any more arms if it doesn't survive this injury.

It actually has everything to do with "what people in Arizona think" I know what the law is; the point is the law needs to be questioned. The criminalization of this is excessive. And Barb is appropriately calling out the people in this state for doing just that. We should question why such a severe punishment is imposed. I love nature just like the next person, but I also know that teenagers will perform stupid immature acts. Do we really need to ruin a kid's life because he cut off a cactus limb? Yeah it won't grow back, so what, there are thousands of saguaro in the desert. We allow people in this state to get away with far worse yet we will send people to jail for cutting of a cactus limb. This is going to negatively impact him his entire life. When he applies for any job or graduate school, he is required to confess this which will negatively impact his application.

Originally Posted by todd00

The poor teen destroyed property that wasn't his. Now if this same kid did substantial damage to your lawn, your own tree (that say had sentimental value to you), or your car, would you still be calling him a poor boy and feeling he didn't deserve a serious punishment for his actions?

No, I would not want him thrown in jail. I could find some free labor or other things for him to do to make up for it, but no, I would not want to send him to jail or potentially ruin his life. It would feel good to throw him in jail.

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

It actually has everything to do with "what people in Arizona think" I know what the law is; the point is the law needs to be questioned. The criminalization of this is excessive. And Barb is appropriately calling out the people in this state for doing just that. We should question why such a severe punishment is imposed. I love nature just like the next person, but I also know that teenagers will perform stupid immature acts. Do we really need to ruin a kid's life because he cut off a cactus limb? Yeah it won't grow back, so what, there are thousands of saguaro in the desert. We allow people in this state to get away with far worse yet we will send people to jail for cutting of a cactus limb. This is going to negatively impact him his entire life. When he applies for any job or graduate school, he is required to confess this which will negatively impact his application.



No, I would not want him thrown in jail. I could find some free labor or other things for him to do to make up for it, but no, I would not want to send him to jail or potentially ruin his life. It would feel good to throw him in jail.

I think the act is worse than "standard" vandalism - if he had scrawled a gang sign on a block wall with paint, you could paint over it. there's no way to fix the saguaro. as for the "there's lot's of them" argument, you should visit the petrified forest - they have pictures from the early part of the century, next to current pictures of the rock formations.. there were lots of petrified rocks, until a lot of people took one.. the first guy to do it is the most responsible, because the followers justified their actions using him. that is the "broken window" phenomenon, it's real, and it's dangerous.

there are consequences for your actions - if an applicant for a selective college or a good job is able to score points for helping the homeless or some other noble cause, they should also lose points for being an ignorant butt-head.

[New Horizons]

I usually agree with your posts, but not this one. These are sacred plants we're talking about, sitting vulnerable and helpless. It's rare to catch the perp in an act like this. So when you do, you've got to make a little example out of them. Hell be alright, he'll be able to explain himself on future applications, how he murdered a saguaro.

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

It actually has everything to do with "what people in Arizona think" I know what the law is; the point is the law needs to be questioned. The criminalization of this is excessive. And Barb is appropriately calling out the people in this state for doing just that. We should question why such a severe punishment is imposed. I love nature just like the next person, but I also know that teenagers will perform stupid immature acts. Do we really need to ruin a kid's life because he cut off a cactus limb? Yeah it won't grow back, so what, there are thousands of saguaro in the desert. We allow people in this state to get away with far worse yet we will send people to jail for cutting of a cactus limb. This is going to negatively impact him his entire life. When he applies for any job or graduate school, he is required to confess this which will negatively impact his application.



No, I would not want him thrown in jail. I could find some free labor or other things for him to do to make up for it, but no, I would not want to send him to jail or potentially ruin his life. It would feel good to throw him in jail.

[ElleTea]

Originally Posted by kdog

He's going to be charged with, "felony criminal damage", according to this. Boy, 16, accused of disfiguring 150-year-old Scottsdale saguaro - CBS 5 - KPHO

Good. Let him remember that he is a felon every time he applies for a job.

Community service should be cleaning the park. In August. Or stand next to th cactus wearing a sign stating what he did.

[todd00]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

It actually has everything to do with "what people in Arizona think" I know what the law is; the point is the law needs to be questioned. The criminalization of this is excessive. And Barb is appropriately calling out the people in this state for doing just that. We should question why such a severe punishment is imposed. I love nature just like the next person, but I also know that teenagers will perform stupid immature acts. Do we really need to ruin a kid's life because he cut off a cactus limb? Yeah it won't grow back, so what, there are thousands of saguaro in the desert. We allow people in this state to get away with far worse yet we will send people to jail for cutting of a cactus limb. This is going to negatively impact him his entire life. When he applies for any job or graduate school, he is required to confess this which will negatively impact his application.

No, I would not want him thrown in jail. I could find some free labor or other things for him to do to make up for it, but no, I would not want to send him to jail or potentially ruin his life. It would feel good to throw him in jail.

If this had been something of yours, say a tree a now departed parent had planted with you for instance, and it was hacked apart by a malicious act of vandalism, I really doubt you'd be so unemotional and forgiving about it. I doubt you would say, oh well so it won't grow back, so what. Or had he torn through your yard with a 4x4 damaging flowers, bushes and trees, doing 5 to 10k in estimated damages, I can't see you saying well boys will be boys, we don't want this to impact his life negatively. But in this case when it wasn't something particularly meaningful to you or your own property damaged or destroyed, it's easy to take a lenient stance regarding this brats actions. Stop being a hypocrite, you'd want justice for such malicious behavior as anyone would if it had been your own property damaged.

This kid will see no jail time, he was initially arrested like any kid would be caught trying to steal or damage property. His parents were notified and they came to get him. That's how it works. I've heard nothing about him being charged as an adult, so this will be handled through juvenile court. He will most likely get some community service, a fine and maybe some probation time. He was charged with a felony due to the estimated cost of the damages, same would hold true if he were to damage your own property and costs to repair were in the thousands. If he is a good boy and stays out of trouble his juvenile record can be sealed and no one will ever know. To excuse this behavior says what? That's it's OK to do as you like because you will only receive a slap on the wrist punishment anyway. There is already way too much of that in the court system for serious violent offenses and the result is the revolving door of criminals in and out of the system doing more harm.

[wit-nit]

Destroying/damaging a Saguaro cactus is no different than an arsonist setting fire to a forest or someone illegally cutting off a pine tree for xmas.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by ElleTea

Good. Let him remember that he is a felon every time he applies for a job.

Community service should be cleaning the park. In August. Or stand next to th cactus wearing a sign stating what he did.

His case will be handled in juvenile court and if he behaves, he will have no criminal record as an adult. We give deserving kids a break and if they learn the lesson, we put it behind them. That is as it should be. 16 yo boys do pretty dumb things sometimes yet go on to be decent adults. Ask me how I know.

[youthinkso]

This kid lives in Gilbert and "didn't know" it was an offense to damage a Saguaro? Horse Hockey...I was told that the first day I ever set foot in Arizona.

[Bummer]

Originally Posted by youthinkso

This kid lives in Gilbert and "didn't know" it was an offense to damage a Saguaro? Horse Hockey...I was told that the first day I ever set foot in Arizona.

I could not agree more, Youthinkso . . . GREAT POINT

However, regardless if it was a Saguaro or a Dandelion . . . what right does this punk have to walk around with a Machete-Type Knife destroying the property of others?

As far as Community Service as a punishment is concerned . . . I see absolutely no reason his parents, both parents, should not be included in the punishment since learning respect begins at home.