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Expanding the existing freeway network, bus and light rail routes should be a priority long before we even consider putting in underground trains.
Yes, and besides, we are already paying an extended half cent sales tax for the sheer purpose of additional freeways (which ADOT claims they don't have enough revenue to build), as well as light rail (which expansion was delayed due to budget shortfalls). There is simply not enough money for subways in Phoenix, and no legitimate need for them. People who like subways so much should stay in New York.
It would be equally as idiotic for Phoenix to build a subway system as it certainly is for the union-dominated politicians here in LA to tout the feasibility (only in their dreams) and super-critical necessity of a subway down Wilshire Blvd. which would miraculously alleviate the day-long parking lot conditions of LA's busiest thoroughfare; their ideas are total hogwash, just as our tree-hugging Governor's fixation for his moderate-speed choo-choo from LA to the SF Bay area which is guaranteed to be a first-class money loser since the hilarious ridership projections are downright absurd not to mention insulting.
I live 5 minutes away from Wilshire Blvd. and I can see the traffic on the Santa Monica Freeway from my home daily, and rest assured that even a briskly-growing city such as Phoenix as opposed to a city such as LA with microscopic population growth most assuredly doesn't NEED a multi-billion or even a trillion dollar (or more) subway, since your politicians are a hell of a lot smarter than their California counterparts and know a boondoggle-in-the-making when they see one.
Anyone whose IQ is higher than their shoe size knows that the #1 reason why a subway either in Phoenix or LA would be indefensibly asinine as opposed to the packed-and-then-some subways serving SF, NYC, Philly, DC, Chicago or Boston, not to mention cities with internationally renowned world-class public transit systems such as Toronto can be described in something which LA & PHX don't have but which all of those other cities do have, and that is DENSITY!!!!
Over 30% of the folks who work in Manhattan use transit to get to work, vs. 4% of DTLA workers; that's the 25 words or less answer as to why neither PHX nor LA needs a subway.
Toss in the fact that DTLA is NOT the job center that those other downtowns are, and how can it be when the tallest skyscraper--65 stories--west of the Mississippi is half-empty????
Consequently the beyond asinine fixation with our local politicians in trying to turn DTLA into the Upper East Side of the west coast is also stupid, which pretty much describes the liberals who've been running the state for over 35 years.
Those $400k per-pop condos going up in DTLA are solely for the one-percenters, almost all of whom are whites, and with only 55,000 folks living in DTLA, the subsidies which the local politicians are shovelling out the door just to entice a Target and a Whole Foods Market as well as the hotels and condos to 'come on down' are also asinine and make no sense; thankfully your politicians are not slaves to civil service unions to the extreme level that their Calfornia counterparts are.
Phoenix is certainly as spread out as they come, and a subway would certainly be equally idiotic given the multitude of job centers all over the place from Scottsdale to booming areas such as Chandler, and no subway system will ever turn the 51 or the 101 Loop into a free-flowing thoroughfare, and your local politicians as well as the local residents undoubtedly know that.
Finally it's been said a bazillion times that Angelenos and other SoCal residents won't give up their cars to ride public transit to work which is spot-on, since the overwhelming majority of public transit riders here in LA are at the bottom of the scale as it relates to income and standard of living, as evidenced by average annual incomes below $20,000.
It's beyond asinine that a state with 5 of the top 30 universities in the nation also has the nation's highest poverty rate as a front-page story in the LA Times pointed out last month, while Phoenix and its suburbs continue to grow and thrive in a very brisk RE market as an article in the WSJ pointed out a day or two ago as well as a superb article spotlighting the local RE market throughout the Valley Of The Sun in the current issue of Personal Real Estate Investor magazine.
The fact remains that your state welcomes businesses and entrepreneurs as opposed to our dimwit Governor as well as fellow dimwits such as Pelosi & Boxer.
Phoenix and Tucson have certainly been major beneficiaries of the 20-plus year-long exodus from California, and that's not about to change either, but rest assured that Phoenix doesn't need a subway anymore than they need another round of those blinding rainstorms which blasted the metroplex last weekend.
There aren't nearly enough folks working either in downtown Phoenix or in any other local job center to make a subway even remotely feasible, so the East coasters who suggest otherwise need to get a grip and get a clue, and ditto for the lamebrained liberals up & down the West coast and their equally brain-dead urban planner masters.
Can you imagine the reaction if Governor Brewer proposed a HSR line from Phoenix to Vegas? She's a heck of a lot brighter than our Governor or our clueless President for that matter, knowing that such a trial balloon would be DOA at once
Phoenix isn't Philly, LA or NYC in too many ways to count; good for you fine folks.
It would be equally as idiotic for Phoenix to build a subway system as it certainly is for the union-dominated politicians here in LA to tout the feasibility (only in their dreams) and super-critical necessity of a subway down Wilshire Blvd. which would miraculously alleviate the day-long parking lot conditions of LA's busiest thoroughfare; their ideas are total hogwash, just as our tree-hugging Governor's fixation for his moderate-speed choo-choo from LA to the SF Bay area which is guaranteed to be a first-class money loser since the hilarious ridership projections are downright absurd not to mention insulting.
I live 5 minutes away from Wilshire Blvd. and I can see the traffic on the Santa Monica Freeway from my home daily, and rest assured that even a briskly-growing city such as Phoenix as opposed to a city such as LA with microscopic population growth most assuredly doesn't NEED a multi-billion or even a trillion dollar (or more) subway, since your politicians are a hell of a lot smarter than their California counterparts and know a boondoggle-in-the-making when they see one.
Anyone whose IQ is higher than their shoe size knows that the #1 reason why a subway either in Phoenix or LA would be indefensibly asinine as opposed to the packed-and-then-some subways serving SF, NYC, Philly, DC, Chicago or Boston, not to mention cities with internationally renowned world-class public transit systems such as Toronto can be described in something which LA & PHX don't have but which all of those other cities do have, and that is DENSITY!!!!
Over 30% of the folks who work in Manhattan use transit to get to work, vs. 4% of DTLA workers; that's the 25 words or less answer as to why neither PHX nor LA needs a subway.
Toss in the fact that DTLA is NOT the job center that those other downtowns are, and how can it be when the tallest skyscraper--65 stories--west of the Mississippi is half-empty????
Consequently the beyond asinine fixation with our local politicians in trying to turn DTLA into the Upper East Side of the west coast is also stupid, which pretty much describes the liberals who've been running the state for over 35 years.
Those $400k per-pop condos going up in DTLA are solely for the one-percenters, almost all of whom are whites, and with only 55,000 folks living in DTLA, the subsidies which the local politicians are shovelling out the door just to entice a Target and a Whole Foods Market as well as the hotels and condos to 'come on down' are also asinine and make no sense; thankfully your politicians are not slaves to civil service unions to the extreme level that their Calfornia counterparts are.
Phoenix is certainly as spread out as they come, and a subway would certainly be equally idiotic given the multitude of job centers all over the place from Scottsdale to booming areas such as Chandler, and no subway system will ever turn the 51 or the 101 Loop into a free-flowing thoroughfare, and your local politicians as well as the local residents undoubtedly know that.
Finally it's been said a bazillion times that Angelenos and other SoCal residents won't give up their cars to ride public transit to work which is spot-on, since the overwhelming majority of public transit riders here in LA are at the bottom of the scale as it relates to income and standard of living, as evidenced by average annual incomes below $20,000.
It's beyond asinine that a state with 5 of the top 30 universities in the nation also has the nation's highest poverty rate as a front-page story in the LA Times pointed out last month, while Phoenix and its suburbs continue to grow and thrive in a very brisk RE market as an article in the WSJ pointed out a day or two ago as well as a superb article spotlighting the local RE market throughout the Valley Of The Sun in the current issue of Personal Real Estate Investor magazine.
The fact remains that your state welcomes businesses and entrepreneurs as opposed to our dimwit Governor as well as fellow dimwits such as Pelosi & Boxer.
Phoenix and Tucson have certainly been major beneficiaries of the 20-plus year-long exodus from California, and that's not about to change either, but rest assured that Phoenix doesn't need a subway anymore than they need another round of those blinding rainstorms which blasted the metroplex last weekend.
There aren't nearly enough folks working either in downtown Phoenix or in any other local job center to make a subway even remotely feasible, so the East coasters who suggest otherwise need to get a grip and get a clue, and ditto for the lamebrained liberals up & down the West coast and their equally brain-dead urban planner masters.
Can you imagine the reaction if Governor Brewer proposed a HSR line from Phoenix to Vegas? She's a heck of a lot brighter than our Governor or our clueless President for that matter, knowing that such a trial balloon would be DOA at once
Phoenix isn't Philly, LA or NYC in too many ways to count; good for you fine folks.
There is no need for this tirade, as the only person who took it seriously was the troll that started it and he has departed. FYI one can think a subway is a bad idea for Phoenix without sharing your inflammatory opinions about unions and Democrats.
There is no need for this tirade, as the only person who took it seriously was the troll that started it and he has departed. FYI one can think a subway is a bad idea for Phoenix without sharing your inflammatory opinions about unions and Democrats.
Actually I still check in once in a while to read the newer comments but my intent was never to troll. All I simply did was create a thread like anyone else would on this forum. Mine is no different.
Last edited by gwillyfromphilly; 09-11-2014 at 07:47 PM..
No way. Big waste of money. We will probably just continue to expand on the at grade system and rightly so as it get's tons of ridership. Subways are only needed where right of way is an issue. Phoenix is spread out enough that right of way costs are not much of a problem.
Anyone whose IQ is higher than their shoe size knows that the #1 reason why a subway either in Phoenix or LA would be indefensibly asinine as opposed to the packed-and-then-some subways serving SF, NYC, Philly, DC, Chicago or Boston, not to mention cities with internationally renowned world-class public transit systems such as Toronto can be described in something which LA & PHX don't have but which all of those other cities do have, and that is DENSITY!!!!
Over 30% of the folks who work in Manhattan use transit to get to work, vs. 4% of DTLA workers; that's the 25 words or less answer as to why neither PHX nor LA needs a subway.
With that in mind, I'm curious as to why L.A. started building a subway system in the '90s. I know parts of the city of L.A. are pretty dense, but I still don't see why subways are even needed there ... especially when the L.A. area still has plenty of what it's originally known for, which is sprawl and freeways. Is it because of the influence from politicians, or what? Did the public even get a chance to vote for subways?
Here in Phoenix, I highly doubt that a subway system would pass if it were to be put on a ballot. We have voted for light rail (twice in fact), as well as additional funding for freeways & better transit ... but that's what we need to keep doing here as far as transportation: stick with what works. Granted, light rail has been very costly, but the ridership has exceeded all original expectations. Going forward, we need keep extending what we currently have, and not fall behind like we did in the '60s, '70s, and '80s when the damn NIMBYs kept resisting freeways.
elevated trains on platforms? yes. Subways? Not at all.. too much money, and keeping it cool would be a challenge.
I hope the can at least try and elevate portion of the Light Rail extension into South Phoenix. That would give it some priority through central and the heavy traffic southern and baseline rd through streets..
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