Opinions On Proposition 104 (Phoenix, Maricopa: apartments, mortgage, purchase)

[BIG CATS]

I oppose the light rail extension, only because I dont use it. What I really wish is that they would build other trains instead of just the light rail. They should build express rail from places like Scottsdale, Mesa, Glendale, etc, to other suburbs/downtown/etc. Not being able to take a train from Scottsdale to Phoenix SUCKS. I know Scottsdale poo-poo's that stuff, but I can dream, cant I? hahaha Ive talked to others from places like NY, NJ, Philly, etc, who live far out, too, and also wish for that option.

My problem with the light rail is that it stops too often, and is too slow. As much as I hate driving in traffic, I can move faster than the light rail moves. Build something like Chicago's Metra and Ill ride it daily to downtown if given the option.

[ElleTea]

Originally Posted by Magnum Mike

We've seen the signs on every street corner asking us to vote yes on Prop 104.

Information about this proposition.. MovePHX - It basically increases sales taxes to generate $31.7 Billion to supposedly "improve" transportation in Phoenix.

Information from those (including myself) who oppose it..
Help us fight the Prop 104 tax increase in Phoenix! | AFP-AZ
Let's Fight Prop 104 And Light Rail
Taken for a Ride

I have nothing against improving transportation in Phoenix and make it easier to get from point a to point b without having to deal with congestion, but with this proposition, which focuses mainly on expanding the light rail, we should NOT have to pay for something most of us DO NOT USE. If they want to expand light rail, they need to find another source of revenue to pay for it.

Very interesting subject. I have not heard of this and have not seen any signs at all about it!

Good conversation on this thread!

[observer53]

Originally Posted by ElleTea

Very interesting subject. I have not heard of this and have not seen any signs at all about it!

Good conversation on this thread!

Living on the east side, unless you venture into Phoenix, especially more central Phoenix, you won't see the signs. It's a city of Phoenix only ballot proposition.

[Magnum Mike]

Originally Posted by BIG CATS

I oppose the light rail extension, only because I dont use it. What I really wish is that they would build other trains instead of just the light rail. They should build express rail from places like Scottsdale, Mesa, Glendale, etc, to other suburbs/downtown/etc. Not being able to take a train from Scottsdale to Phoenix SUCKS. I know Scottsdale poo-poo's that stuff, but I can dream, cant I? hahaha Ive talked to others from places like NY, NJ, Philly, etc, who live far out, too, and also wish for that option.

My problem with the light rail is that it stops too often, and is too slow. As much as I hate driving in traffic, I can move faster than the light rail moves. Build something like Chicago's Metra and Ill ride it daily to downtown if given the option.

I live in northwest Phoenix and I work northeast of downtown Phoenix and my commute takes about 20 to 30 minutes. If I were to ride the light rail, it would take me about 90 minutes mainly because of having to drive or taking a bus to a station, all the stops with the light rail, then changing to a bus. That might work for somebody who has the luxury of time, but I don't have that, and I don't think many professionals do.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Magnum Mike

I live in northwest Phoenix and I work northeast of downtown Phoenix and my commute takes about 20 to 30 minutes. If I were to ride the light rail, it would take me about 90 minutes mainly because of having to drive or taking a bus to a station, all the stops with the light rail, then changing to a bus. That might work for somebody who has the luxury of time, but I don't have that, and I don't think many professionals do.

Of course not, but how does investing in building blocks of a world class city hurt you? I don't use light rail as part of my daily commute, but I do use it almost every time I head into downtown for any events, dinners, etc.. I'm still more than willing to support this for multiple reasons:

- The day may come where I work directly off the line, as more energy gets built around the system jobs will, and have already started to, locate directly near the system.

- The success that is already happening near the existing line has been great. Sections of Tempe are really starting to boom with denser infill projects, same story along the line in DT Phoenix and along Central in Upton, all of this development has come at a time when the economy has really been in the tank locally. Imagine what's possible when we start to crank things up again.

- Continually expanding outward is not a good solution, there really is no reason why the Phoenix metro should consume another acre of raw desert for new development. There is more than enough opportunity to redevelop run-down areas of central metro Phoenix and LRT has shown to be an excellent building block of spurring urban renewal.

- Most people are basing their decision on how things work today. We'll traffic isn't so bad here now. I can drive from here to here in 20 minutes. I take a different approach, I know damn well if every new person that comes to Phoenix for the next 20 years goes and lives in houses in Queen Creek, AJ, Fountain Hills, Anthem, Peoria and Surprise, then decides to commute in to the main valley job centers things are going to get ugly quick. But if some % of those people moving here decide to live in DT Tempe, DT Phoenix, Uptown PHX etc... then we've either drastically shortened the commute of new arrivals and/or even convinced people who used to live in the fringes to move in.

- Great jobs, talented people, and in general the type of creative/high tech economy Phoenix should be focused on building is dependent on our ability to create the environments these folks/companies are looking to locate in. Take a look at any highly successful city in the country or world and they've go the environment that mass transit is a part of. Adding bus lines does not work for this, sorry.


Just my 2 cents, I see this as an investment.

[pbenjamin]

Originally Posted by ajonesaz

I thought it was closer to $.70 on a $100 purchase. I think $.40 is the current transport tax (which I think expires) and they want to change it to $.70

Which still isn't a bad deal. They should be around 9%, most west valley cities are much higher than that.

Right. The increase is 30 cents. The opposition makes it sound like we are adding 70 cents to what we are already paying.

[ElleTea]

Originally Posted by observer53

Living on the east side, unless you venture into Phoenix, especially more central Phoenix, you won't see the signs. It's a city of Phoenix only ballot proposition.

I don't live on the east side.

Have not heard about it in local news, either.

[stevek64]

I see it all as not what's being spent and if "I" benefit, but is this the best "bang for the buck" to spend so much money on. How do we know this expansion will provide a good ROI? If it does, great! If not, perhaps this pile of money can be spent in better ways in Phoenix, or not spent at all. To determine this, do we have stats on ridership/who is doing most of the riding on the light rail? Is it mostly/a large % of college kids? If college kids make up most/a large % of use, is it mostly a small section of track that's used by them around Tempe/downtown? People going to/from work? Mostly weekend users going to downtown from other areas surrounding Phoenix? Crunching basic ridership numbers and gathering other facts I think would help to determine if expanding the light rail is a smart investment beyond "other big cities do it/build it and they will use it" mentality.

[Maroon197]

Bus Rapid Transit is much cheaper and much more logical for a city like Phoenix. The reason rail works in Europe and large East Coast cities is because they are (and pretty much always have been) extremely dense, both in terms of population and built environment. Phoenix can and likely will become more dense with time, but there is an absolutely staggeringly huge built environment already, which will create a lot of challenges moving forward. I support public transit options 100%, but they need to be implemented mindfully and with appropriate consideration of cost and place. Just because something works in Boston or Portland doesn't mean it's the best option or even an appropriate option for Phoenix.

I'd like to see more innovative public transit proposals that better address Phoenix's unique strengths and challenges.

[Valley Native]

In principle, I support light rail and other forms of public transit. I'm opposed to 104 mainly because we already are paying taxes for extending light rail, and that was the result of the Prop 400 approval by voters in 2004 to extend the half cent transportation tax ... a portion of that is supposed to be used for light rail. If Prop 104 passes, it will be the double taxation.

Another problem I have with this (as well as other transportation initiatives in the past) is the uncertainty of how much will actually get done with all this extra money. A good example of that was the 1985 half cent tax to build freeways. ADOT and MAG promised us 231 miles of new freeways by the early 21st Century, but we have only half of that completed. In 2004, voters approved the extension of that same tax for additional freeways, and light rail. How many new freeways have been built in the last 11 years from that tax extension??? Before anybody mentions the 303, that was already part of the 1985 plan. We constantly hear excuses that things can't be done as promised because of revenue shortfalls.