Opinions On Proposition 104 (Phoenix: 2013, schools, cost)

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

In principle, I support light rail and other forms of public transit. I'm opposed to 104 mainly because we already are paying taxes for extending light rail, and that was the result of the Prop 400 approval by voters in 2004 to extend the half cent transportation tax ... a portion of that is supposed to be used for light rail. If Prop 104 passes, it will be the double taxation.

The double taxation you refer to is not something that would be new if 104 is approved. It already exists. Currently, transit in Phoenix is funded by both Transit 2000, the .4% tax approved by Phoenix voters in 2000, and Proposition 400, the .5% tax approved by Maricopa County voters in 2004. What 104 proposes, and I support, is extending Transit 2000 past its 2020 sunset and raising the rate from .4% to .7%. Transportation projects and services are almost always financed by multiple layers of local, regional, and federal funds.

[kell490]

Urban sprawl will not be contained by a transit system it will only be contained when they run out of land and prices begin to rise. If I'm offered a single family home with a backyard and 2 car garage for $200k vr high rise apartment downtown I'm always going to choose the single family home. I don't want to live so close and jammed in with everyone else that is part of the freedoms that I like about Arizona. I moved here in 1994 from Orange County California because of that reason I was sick of living in Apartments for $1600 a month when I could buy a single family home with a pool and my mortgage payment was $500 a month (1994 prices). I would never go back to apartment living in high density urban environment. While land here is cheap builders will continue to sprawl out farther and farther. Look at Southern California as an example when my parents bought a home in 1960's Newport beach it was a cheap track home $13k now that same home is $1.2 million. They are building 50 miles away and people commute for hours driving all over southern California. No one is going to the same place people work all over 100's of Sq miles.

[West Phx Native]

no to any tax increase, we are all ready taxed to death and then some. The only thing the rail has done is make it a royal pain to do business with any stores along the rail lines.

[Minntoaz]

Originally Posted by West Phx Native

no to any tax increase, we are all ready taxed to death and then some. The only thing the rail has done is make it a royal pain to do business with any stores along the rail lines.

Taxed to death? Have you lived in a liberal state before? Having moved back to Minnesota and next to NYC I look back at how ridiculously cheap Even the epensive areas of the valley were. Sales tax, property tax and income tax are all high in MN and let's not even talk about NYC/NJ.

As for the prop 104 tax I'd vote yes! I abhor how much driving there is in The valley. To get anywhere it takes like 30 minutes. Plus I have had to fight for my life on numerous occasions via extremely assertive/defensive driving during tourist season. Literally people driving like they are wasted. The most dangerous drivers I've ever encountered. So yes get that light rail banging.

[Magnum Mike]

Originally Posted by pbenjamin

Right. The increase is 30 cents. The opposition makes it sound like we are adding 70 cents to what we are already paying.

It doesn't matter if it's 30 cents, 70 cents, or even 5 cents, I appose any tax increases for Phoenix to waste on something that's not going to do what it promises.

[Magnum Mike]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

In principle, I support light rail and other forms of public transit. I'm opposed to 104 mainly because we already are paying taxes for extending light rail, and that was the result of the Prop 400 approval by voters in 2004 to extend the half cent transportation tax ... a portion of that is supposed to be used for light rail. If Prop 104 passes, it will be the double taxation.

Another problem I have with this (as well as other transportation initiatives in the past) is the uncertainty of how much will actually get done with all this extra money. A good example of that was the 1985 half cent tax to build freeways. ADOT and MAG promised us 231 miles of new freeways by the early 21st Century, but we have only half of that completed. In 2004, voters approved the extension of that same tax for additional freeways, and light rail. How many new freeways have been built in the last 11 years from that tax extension??? Before anybody mentions the 303, that was already part of the 1985 plan. We constantly hear excuses that things can't be done as promised because of revenue shortfalls.

Thank you Valley Native. If we're going to be taxed for something there had better be proof that whatever we're paying for will produce the results we were promised. It's the same principle as when I go to a business to purchase or have something done, and if I'm not happy with the results, then I will not go back to that business.

If prop 104 focused mainly on real solutions to reduce congestion, then I would vote for it, but unfortunately, that's not that case. Light rail is good for some people, but it's not THE solution. Most valley commuters have to rely on their automobiles for transportation and have no use for the light rail and for that reason, I refuse to pay for something that's very pricey and I will not use.

[phx1205]

Why is everyone so focused on light rail? Per the sources cited earlier that is less than 20% of the planned costs. I'm more excited about the 600 bus pull outs. That will be a huge benefit. As someone that commutes down 7th St to Downtown, the bus pull outs will be great (assuming some of those planned 600 will be on that route).

[Java Jolt]

Originally Posted by West Phx Native

no to any tax increase, we are all ready taxed to death and then some. The only thing the rail has done is make it a royal pain to do business with any stores along the rail lines.

Just so you know this transportation plan isn't just about light rail, it includes increasing bus service, creating more pullouts, and making improvements to existing streets.

Taxes are a part of life, a necessary evil as they've been called.

If you're that much against rail and paying taxes maybe Phoenix isn't for you, perhaps you should try living off the grid somewhere in isolation.

[kell490]

Maybe people who want light rail donate money to the system or raise fairs to cover it. I will never use light rail I enjoy driving by my self to work. It gives me alone time I don't have to talk to people. I hate riding in a crowded bus, so standing room only light rail isn't my thing. Like most people that do not ride it or use the bus system why do we have to pay for it. The city keeps raising taxes if were not careful we will have taxes like East Coast city's.

[phx1205]

Originally Posted by kell490

Like most people that do not ride it or use the bus system why do we have to pay for it. The city keeps raising taxes if were not careful we will have taxes like East Coast city's.

Should we also put a toll booth on every single street, so only the people that drive on a particular street pay for the maintenance and up keep? You realize that is what you are saying, right?