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As other posters have said, people complaining about the heat, politics, etc. You should have found out before you moved here. If it is that bad why stay?
I'll add one more to this list.
People who live in Surprise, the Far East Valley, or the far North Valley and so on. Then they complain about how their us no urban environment, there are only chain restaurants exist, etc.. etc...
If you can't find a fun/hip urban environment or lots of local places to eat/shop, it's your own damn fault. We moved to Tempe specifically because this stuff was important to us and other than when an out of town guest wants to eat at a chain of some sort, we never have a problem chowing at our favorite local spots. Also pretty exciting with how the Tempe music scene is progressing. Also digging the energy that's happening around Roosevelt Row.
If you ever go to the top of South Mountain and look North it seems fairly well defined, maybe not quite as much as Salt Lake City, but considering how bad the inversion is there I'm kind of glad it's not that defined.
A what you hate about the valley thread... seems unnecessary to me. A lot of us complain about various aspects in about every thread... myself included, I'm trying to be a more glass half full person though. Negativity helps nothing.
I love my job, the cost of living, my home which I wouldn't be able to afford in California and I have met some great people out here. I also like that home (San Diego) is so close I can go out there every weekend if I want to. And when I do, which is often, I feel like I'm rich with all this disposable income that friends and family who pay massive rent and mortgages out their don't have. I'm like a baller when I go back home if I can say so lol. My dislikes are still very numerous
This is the worst possible climate for me in a lot of ways. I'm still uncomfortably hot at about 75 and haven't acclimated a bit.
In the same respect with my hips, this dry climate keeps what used to be chronic pain (Embarrassing issue for a 25 year old as it is) away. I forgot about the chronic pain because it's a non issue generally, unless I overexert the joints, and got a painful reminder today and Sunday with the high humidity.
My allergies on the other hand are a serious bother here more so than San Diego or the Gulf Coast ever were. I can go on, but you know what I'm not going to. I'm going to focus on the good aspects of this place, I gripe enough in day to day crap about this place, I figure focusing on the positive is my best bet. Ideally I'd have the opportunity to live well in a very cool cloudy and rainy climate. I think Seattle or Portland would be my perfect climate. With the humidity that comes along I'm not sure how well I would be though. If the opportunity presents itself I would LOVE to live in Flagstaff. I've been up there for work and on weekends to explore often and I love everything about that town. Perhaps my ideal place is actually Flag. Now if only there was jobs there. As soon as I see an opportunity to get a good job there I'll pounce on it maybe. Until than I figure I should make the best of the valley. I was gonna say Phoenix, but I'm in the East Valley and have very little desire to actually live in Phoenix limits.
Also for what it's worth it has always drove me nuts we call this a valley. A valley is surrounded by mountains or hills which you must transverse to enter or exit a valley. I-10 to the west is wide open from Phoenix. Also the areas are also wide open all the way to and through Tucson and all the way through to Florida if you were to ride the 10 out with out ever hitting a single grade. You can go around several mountains in the otherwise flat as Kansas "valley" but it is not surrounded and this is truly not a valley.
Everyone is allowed their opinions, but I think I'm also allowed to provide my own counter opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by new2colo
1) The manmade environment is very aesthetically bland. Many parts of the Valley look nearly identical with very little defining characteristics. It's the same beige, stucco tile roof homes from Gilbert to Surprise to Buckeye to Mesa. This is true, many parts of the newer sections of the valley look very much the same. And lots and lots of people could careless about that, I hear so many people say how happy they are to live in an area that is 'brand spanking new'. If this isn't your thing however there are a lot of options, that are often overlooked by those who move to those brand new areas, where you can get into an older, unique, very well preserved home if that's what you wish. Some of my favorites are the Arcadia and Coronado districts in central Phoenix. If I were to leave Tempe it would be for one of those gems. Here's a link if you're so interested. Welcome to Historic Phoenix. Phoenix Arizona's largest and most comprehensive collection of Historic Information and Historic Phoenix Real Estate in the Downtown and Central Neighborhoods of Phoenix Arizona
2) There are very few hip neighborhoods for being a metropolitan area of 4.5 million. With the exception of a handful of the downtown areas (Gilbert, Chandler, Mesa, Tempe, Scottsdale, Phoenix, Glendale) there are just no cool areas to walk around like you find in major metropolitan areas. Phoenix proper really has no walkable, hip areas outside of maybe Roosevelt Row and the immediate downtown. It's really kind of odd.
Also true, Phoenix is very auto-centric. There is a growing number of locations however where you could get a lot of stuff done day to day without a car. I do wonder how long new2colo lived here or how long they lived here if they still do. Downtown Phoenix is undergoing a really nice Renaissance right now and downtown Tempe is also growing to have quite a cityscape as well. Neither one are going to fill like mid-town manhattan, but then again hopefully you realized that's not what you're getting before you picked Phoenix to live in. What you could do in DT Phoenix without a car is visit quite a few cultural attractions (symphony, phx art museum, science center, ballet, a nice variety (and growing) number of restaurants, at least 4 different major sports teams, at least 1 or 2 farmers markets, quite a few music/comedy/entertainment venues, and I'm sure a lot more I'm missing. Now I moved from here to Boston and back again, by no means does downtown Phoenix compare to Back Bay Boston or the North End, but I will say I don't run out of things to do and although I wish we had more of an urban life I don't feel like I'm missing out on some great urban opportunity living here. I actually rather enjoy the unique, somewhat rough around the edges, nature of Phoenix. I don't expect it to be for everyone, just like I knew lots of miserable people in Boston and New York City while I spent time out there. But there's a lot to love around here, from many perspectives. Phoenix is in some ways the underdog, the place nobody ever gave a chance, and it's rising up in a way even a lot of natives clamored would never happen! I love every minute of watching it happen.
3) There is no respect for history here. There are various websites that I frequent that feature images of Phoenix as it was in the 20th Century. It seems like a number of locations that gave the Phoenix area a sense of place were mowed down with little care. The Fox Theater in downtown Phoenix is a prime example. While many other cities have saved their historic performing arts theaters, Phoenix city council and residents allowed the theater to be mowed down for a bus station, which of course was mowed down and is now just a vacant lot. Numerous other buildings were torn down for surface parking lots. Mom and pop shops which seemed to be scattered all over the place were torn down for strip malls, bland high rises, and endless chains. Phoenix is all about the new. Everything that is older is cannibalized for the latest.
Funny, I guess this just depends on what you value. I do know Phoenix tore down a bunch of stuff and sure, I wish that wasn't true. It would be nice to have some of those gems back but it's gone, so be it. There are some left, and I've seen a renewed sense of preserving those now, at least we can say that this mindset seems to have shifted to some extent. What I do love about Phoenix, that many older cities never had the foresight to manage, is the open areas. Places like South Mountain and the McDowell Mountain Preserves actually contain quite a bit of Phoenix history, if you know what to look for. There's 2 castles in Phoenix that are pretty unique to the area and tell a story about it's past... but most people won't ever know that story, because they're busy looking for old theaters like Philly or Chicago might have. Things are different here, again I kind of like that. But don't miss the Orpheum theater and hopefully the soon to be used again Westward Ho. Also the Biltmore, Taliesen West, and a few other FLW gems exist around these parts. It's not quite as bad as this poster makes it out to be. But I wont deny, some gems were absolutely lost.
4) The design of the entire Valley is auto oriented. Unlike many other cities, Phoenix is completely designed around the automobile. Stores here aren't don't have entrances that face the street, but the parking lot. On street parking is banned in most areas of the Valley to allow for rapid vehicle circulation that has basically turned every arterial street here into a freeway where you can easily zoom through at 60+ MPH with drivers still tailgating and dangerously passing to go 70 MPH. Try going these speeds in LA, Chicago, Boston, DC, New York. It's impossible.
Yup, it is way easier to get around Phoenix in a car. I almost feel like I'm cheating sometimes after working many years on the East Coast. I will not complain about this ever... Sorry, just not a problem IMO.
6) The constant talk about weather. People here are OBSESSED with talking about the weather. This is not just on this forum, but in daily life here. For a place that really has some of the most predictable weather year round, it is strange to have people talking to me about the fact that it's 110 in July or the fact that it is 70 degrees in January, like it's abnormal. I understand that talking about the weather is a good way to make small talk, however it is really over the top in my experience.
Yeah, I've never been anywhere where this doesn't happen. The funny part to me is that I spend way more time outdoors than most average office workers, I'm outdoors hiking and biking at least 8 hours a week and I've got several friends who work full time outdoors. They, like me, also focus on the weather way less than those who walk from their house to the car, car to work, work to car, car to house. I have no idea why that is, but same thing was true out east, a lot of people spend more time complaining about weather than the actual time they're even int. Too funny.
7) The fact that many people seem to like Phoenix for what it's near and not for what's here. I have a coworker who said her favorite thing about Phoenix is that it's an easy drive to Vegas and the beach. It seems like people are constantly trying to escape this place and have very little attachment here.
I see at as perk, not the purpose for being here. I think we'd all live on coastal houses if the option was available, but it's not, so here we are. I can't say I look to escape Phoenix though, I'm usually overwhelmed with things to do and end up missing stuff personally. Last weekend I missed the Real Wild and Woody Beer festival because I was already booked for a concert. New Times and azcentral keep my to do list more than full. There's some amazing art/music venues around the valley: SMOCA, Tempe Arts Center, Mesa Arts Center, MIM, Chandler Performing Arts, Herberger, Desert Theater and so many more. Sure, I like that I can drive to the beach, but I've been back here 1 year now and still haven't worried about going to the beach. I'm sure the day will come soon though and it's nice to know it's right out the 10.
8) The complaints about traffic. It seems like a lot of people here who are transplants from small Midwestern towns or natives who grew up in a smaller Phoenix love to gripe about how "horrible" Phoenix traffic is. Those of us who are from other large cities or have experienced traffic jams in other places know that Phoenix's traffic problem is not really a problem at all. Traffic flows very well here. There is stop and go traffic during rush hour, but the random traffic jam on a Sunday night at 11 PM is non-existent here aside from an accident or a special event.
I think you nailed it, lots of people remember the old Phoenix. When I moved here 13 years ago the place felt so much smaller than it does today. Half the venues I listed above didn't exist, downtown was truly the ghost town you describe it as, there was no city center, Roosevelt Row was pretty much vacant still, a little get together called First Fridays was happening but nobody knew much about it, the Cardinals still played at ASU, the Coyotes shared AWA with the Suns, the D'baks were still new in town, and yeah, this place was a fraction of what it is today. Even the casinos were still pretty new, there was little entertainment involved, it was mostly just a smoky room with some slot machines and poker.
I'm not trying to bash anyone's opinions, but I think everyone has their own way of evaluating things. I don't really care if someone likes Phoenix or not, but my opinion is most people never get to know the real Phoenix. Living in Gilbert, East Mesa, AJ, Queen Creek, Peoria, Surprise, Buckeye, Avondale, or the other host of fringe communities has nothing to do with the heart and soul of Phoenix. That's not where it was, that's not where it ever will be. If you aren't afraid to see a little riff raff (and what big city doesn't have homeless people begging outside of libraries or on corners, gimme a break) you'll find a pretty cool city does exist here.
If you like to read about Phoenix and "Valley" history, I highly recommend the Phoenix 101 series over at Rogue Columnist. Fair warning that a lot of the posts do have somewhat of a liberal slant to them, however, you can skip over those if you want and just read the ones that are more historical in nature. He usually digs up some pretty nice old pictures as well. The writer is an author and grew up here so it tends to be nostalgic and detailed. I am not sure if we are allowed to post links but if you internet-search Phoenix 101 it'll be at the top of the list. Anyway, just throwing that out there, may not be for everyone but I enjoy the history even when I disagree with the political take-away.
If you like to read about Phoenix and "Valley" history, I highly recommend the Phoenix 101 series over at Rogue Columnist. Fair warning that a lot of the posts do have somewhat of a liberal slant to them, however, you can skip over those if you want and just read the ones that are more historical in nature. He usually digs up some pretty nice old pictures as well. The writer is an author and grew up here so it tends to be nostalgic and detailed. I am not sure if we are allowed to post links but if you internet-search Phoenix 101 it'll be at the top of the list. Anyway, just throwing that out there, may not be for everyone but I enjoy the history even when I disagree with the political take-away.
Thanks for the info, very cool series! The TBT column talking about the turbo train visit to Phoenix is a good one.
If you like to read about Phoenix and "Valley" history, I highly recommend the Phoenix 101 series over at Rogue Columnist. Fair warning that a lot of the posts do have somewhat of a liberal slant to them, however, you can skip over those if you want and just read the ones that are more historical in nature. He usually digs up some pretty nice old pictures as well. The writer is an author and grew up here so it tends to be nostalgic and detailed. I am not sure if we are allowed to post links but if you internet-search Phoenix 101 it'll be at the top of the list. Anyway, just throwing that out there, may not be for everyone but I enjoy the history even when I disagree with the political take-away.
Jon Talton (Rogue Columnist) is currently writing a book on Phoenix history. He has also written several mystery novels set in Phoenix. The protagonist, an historian turned MCSO deputy turned private eye, lives in Willo. Talton was once a columnist in the business section of the Republic.
If you like to read about Phoenix and "Valley" history, I highly recommend the Phoenix 101 series over at Rogue Columnist. Fair warning that a lot of the posts do have somewhat of a liberal slant to them, however, you can skip over those if you want and just read the ones that are more historical in nature. He usually digs up some pretty nice old pictures as well. The writer is an author and grew up here so it tends to be nostalgic and detailed. I am not sure if we are allowed to post links but if you internet-search Phoenix 101 it'll be at the top of the list. Anyway, just throwing that out there, may not be for everyone but I enjoy the history even when I disagree with the political take-away.
I generally agree with Talton's politics but detest his blog due to its incessant negativity, repetitive posts, hackneyed wording, condescending tone, and bitter nostalgia. I'm not looking for a debate about Talton because I find his fans remain his fans no matter what I say -- just pointing out that it's possible to dislike his writing due to reasons other than politics. Also, I advise anyone reading Talton to do so with a grain of salt. He doesn't make factual errors, but he leaves out a lot. It's not that he's wrong about what ails Phoenix, it's that he ignores everything positive when it doesn't fit his preconceived notion that Phoenix will never be as good it was when he was growing up.
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