Tell me what you hate about the Valley (Phoenix: utilities, property taxes)

[pbenjamin]

Originally Posted by ScottsdaleMark

Thank you Pbenjamin and exit2lef, I wasn't sure how many here had already read the Rogue website. I only myself became aware of it relatively recently.

I do know what you mean about being negatively nostalgic. I just kind of ignore that aspect of it because I have had a hard time finding places online that really talk about Phoenix and Arizona history and so forth. That's one reason I have read these forums off and on for years and finally started posting here. It's just nice to talk with other people about Phoenix and learn new things.

I do plan to buy his Phoenix book as I have to assume for a broad-based book, it won't be too political and will be well-written and a lot of fun to read.

I have some overdue library books so if anyone has any reading recommendations for Phoenix/valley history let me know. Haha.

This is Arizona history, as opposed to Phoenix, but a great book. I took a Cultural Geography of Arizona course at Phoenix College last semester and it was the textbook.

Arizona: A History, Revised Edition (Southwest Center Series)

[new2colo]

Originally Posted by locolife

Everyone is allowed their opinions, but I think I'm also allowed to provide my own counter opinion.



I think you nailed it, lots of people remember the old Phoenix. When I moved here 13 years ago the place felt so much smaller than it does today. Half the venues I listed above didn't exist, downtown was truly the ghost town you describe it as, there was no city center, Roosevelt Row was pretty much vacant still, a little get together called First Fridays was happening but nobody knew much about it, the Cardinals still played at ASU, the Coyotes shared AWA with the Suns, the D'baks were still new in town, and yeah, this place was a fraction of what it is today. Even the casinos were still pretty new, there was little entertainment involved, it was mostly just a smoky room with some slot machines and poker.

I'm not trying to bash anyone's opinions, but I think everyone has their own way of evaluating things. I don't really care if someone likes Phoenix or not, but my opinion is most people never get to know the real Phoenix. Living in Gilbert, East Mesa, AJ, Queen Creek, Peoria, Surprise, Buckeye, Avondale, or the other host of fringe communities has nothing to do with the heart and soul of Phoenix. That's not where it was, that's not where it ever will be. If you aren't afraid to see a little riff raff (and what big city doesn't have homeless people begging outside of libraries or on corners, gimme a break) you'll find a pretty cool city does exist here.

I don't know why you need to debate me on my opinion. That's not the purpose of this thread. The topic is what do YOU hate about the Valley. I gave my responses. You're allowed to have your own opinion, but I think it is good to stick within the topic of the thread.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by ScottsdaleMark

I have some overdue library books so if anyone has any reading recommendations for Phoenix/valley history let me know. Haha.

I recommend a book called "Phoenix in Perspective" by Grady Gammage Jr. It's out-of-print and hard to get a hold of, but I find it more balanced than Talton's work.

[HTY483]

• Well, the heat is a big one for me. I've had it and cannot wait to GTF out of here.
• Acres upon acres of bland cookie cutter houses that are all jammed close together. Pockets of nice houses exist in Phoenix and Tempe but the outlying cities are a sea brown stucco.
• Brown houses, brown land, brown mountains, brown strip malls. Everything is the same color out here.
• Winter time traffic and general crowdedness due to the seasonal population influx. MLB spring training is the worst.
• Lack of green trees and grass.
• 48th in education just ahead of Alabama and Mississippi.
• Lack of ability to make social connections which, IMO is due to the transient nature of the Valley. People move here then 3 years later they move away. I made more friends during the 6 months that I lived in FL then the 3 years that I've been back in the Valley. I made more lasting friendships in the 3 years I lived in Denver and they are the ones that are calling me and asking me to come back and stay for a few days.
• All the thievery. Mesa used to be the car theft capital of the country but the bait car program made a huge difference. I believe Stockton, CA now holds that dubious honor. It's still not good though and the thievery in general is really bad compared to other cities I've live in. Just an indication to me of the unfortunately high number of scumbags in the Valley.
• Phoenix is home to some of the deadliest intersections in the country. 7th St & Bell and 19th Ave & Northern were both in the top 10. 32nd St & Greenway was a tad farther down the list. IMO this is a general indication of the rush rush, L.A. style way of life here in the Valley.
• Human traffickers (coyotes) taking advantage (read killing and raping) of the poor and desperate illegals coming across the border. A couple of years ago the coyotes were vying over territory when a shootout erupted on I-10 just south of Chandler Blvd.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by new2colo

I don't know why you need to debate me on my opinion. That's not the purpose of this thread. The topic is what do YOU hate about the Valley. I gave my responses. You're allowed to have your own opinion, but I think it is good to stick within the topic of the thread.

No debate needed, just a counter opinion being provided.

Makes sense actually, since the thing I hate most about the valley is short sighted opinions about the valley. Just sharing my thoughts, as many people had their chance to share theirs.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Montanama

Right. This is about my only "complaint" if you could call it that, but it would make no sense to be unhappy about it. I would not go so far as to call it something I "hate", more just a wish, if everything could be ideal, that each of the cities had their own downtown core, the type with local restaurants and shops. The reality is that this isn't how the outlying cities, now not necessarily outlying but cities in their own rights, evolved. And you really can't retrofit that, though I see some of the cities trying with varying degrees of success. So there it is. I'm not a snob about chain restaurants, like them just fine for what they are, but in a perfect world I'd have a choice in Goodyear between the box shopping districts and a true "downtown" walkable area.

But we chose Goodyear, not Tempe, knowing we were giving that up.

You won't hear me complaining--we picked it, we knew there were trade-offs, and we're happy. We can drive to walkable areas, lol.

Yeah, that makes sense. I just think the area has grown up way too fast to have that sort of thing, especially when you start talking about the SW part of the valley which I think seems to be really the newest part, and really has the least amount of history that might of led to an older town section. I actually really like the old town part of Glendale, which is probably the closest thing you'd find kind of near you. They've got a chocolate factory there that is pretty awesome, and some other local gems if you explore a little. Also, I thought I saw a story on one of the Phoenix development thread sites about Avondale working on a more walkable downtownish type section, but I can't remember the details of the top of my head. It seems like cities get what people want and are reacting. Mesa, Gilbert, Scottsdale and Chandler have certainly got the message. I just don't know a ton about the west side...

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by new2colo

I don't know why you need to debate me on my opinion. That's not the purpose of this thread. The topic is what do YOU hate about the Valley. I gave my responses. You're allowed to have your own opinion, but I think it is good to stick within the topic of the thread.

He was politely helping you see the errors in your logic.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

He was politely helping you see the errors in your logic.

Indeed!

[ElleTea]

I hate people complaining about the heat and lack of rain. In the desert

[AZBradley]

I hate the heat and lack of rain!