Denver vs. Phoenix (Scottsdale, Flagstaff, Kingman: movers, new house, neighborhoods)

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by Patrick754

Why are you injecting San Diego into the argument ? This is a Denver versus Phoenix discussion. It would be just as silly if I brought up the fact that Denver's Downtown is a joke compared to Seattle, San Francisco, Minneapolis, Chicago, NYC, Philadelphia etc.

No, San Diego is in fact VERY relevant to the discussion. It's a major regional city in the southwestern quadrant of the US, San Diego happens to be the closest city to Phoenix of comparable size, as well as the #1 other major city that Phoenicians most frequently spend their time in. It's also relevant because I see time after time again, people moving to Phoenix are really looking for the Mediterranean climate ideal that San Diego best exemplifies. BTW, Denver's downtown (in fact, Denver as a whole) is very comparable to Seattle and Minneapolis-- those cities might have a slight edge according to some, but it's not a joke. It is a joke compared to SF, Chicago, NYC, Boston, and Philly-- I'll give you that one. But that doesn't change the fact that downtown Phoenix is joke-- compared to everybody-- whether you're comparing it to downtown Des Moines, IA, or Manhattan, NYC. In fact, you don't even have to compare it to out of state cities; downtown Phoenix is a joke compared to downtown Tempe and old town Scottsdale-- even downtown Flagstaff is a superior place to be.

[Patrick754]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

No, San Diego is in fact VERY relevant to the discussion. It's a major regional city in the southwestern quadrant of the US, San Diego happens to be the closest city to Phoenix of comparable size, as well as the #1 other major city that Phoenicians most frequently spend their time in.

Which still means nothing in a Phoenix versus Denver discussion.

As far as downtowns, I would certainly hope that San Diego and Denver have better downtowns given their advanced age in comparison to Phoenix. Complaining that post WWII Sun belt boom towns lack the urban amenities of much older cities is about as intelligent and productive as beating your head against a brick wall.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

No, San Diego is in fact VERY relevant to the discussion. It's a major regional city in the southwestern quadrant of the US, San Diego happens to be the closest city to Phoenix of comparable size, as well as the #1 other major city that Phoenicians most frequently spend their time in. It's also relevant because I see time after time again, people moving to Phoenix are really looking for the Mediterranean climate ideal that San Diego best exemplifies. BTW, Denver's downtown (in fact, Denver as a whole) is very comparable to Seattle and Minneapolis-- those cities might have a slight edge according to some, but it's not a joke. It is a joke compared to SF, Chicago, NYC, Boston, and Philly-- I'll give you that one. But that doesn't change the fact that downtown Phoenix is joke-- compared to everybody-- whether you're comparing it to downtown Des Moines, IA, or Manhattan, NYC. In fact, you don't even have to compare it to out of state cities; downtown Phoenix is a joke compared to downtown Tempe and old town Scottsdale-- even downtown Flagstaff is a superior place to be.

No it is not relevant. Patrick754 is spot on. You're getting to be like a broken record whining about Phoenix. You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but a fair amount of what you say smacks of a newbie who really doesn't have much of a grasp on the facts. If the shoe fits and you are one of those you describe as looking for the Mediterranean climate and a "downtown" but disappointed that Phoenix is not your cup of tea, well, why not put that shoe on and start walking? I don't think we are going to change enough to suit you any time soon.

[WestCoDude]

Denver's downtown is full of drunk frat douchebags and gross homeless people. I'd take a stale, lifeless downtown like Phoenix's over Denver's madhouse any ol' day.

That said...Vegas, you're right. San Diego is SELECT and that's EXACTLY how a downtown should look. I'll take SD's downtown over Phoenix and Denver. And either way, most Denverites and Phoenicians don't have any business downtown anyway. They're two suburban cities so...who really cares who has a more vibrant downtown?

[Patrick754]

Originally Posted by WestCoDude

And either way, most Denverites and Phoenicians don't have any business downtown anyway. They're two suburban cities so...who really cares who has a more vibrant downtown?

I just don't get the people that move to Phoenix and then proceed to complain about the lack of urban amenities and/or the heat. It's not as if Phoenix's climate and suburban design are closely guarded secrets. When I read such complaints I can only come to a few limited conclusions:

1. They're stupid/ignorant.

2. They're lazy and couldn't be bothered to take a drive downtown or spend 10 minutes on weather.com looking at temperature averages.

3. They're miserable people looking for a justification for their misery.

[desert sun]

call the chamber of commerce in Denver and order a travel guide its free,I ordered one from Phoenix and Denver a couple months back and I cant believe how much more of a city Denver actually is and all the stuff they have,you cant even compare the two.Denver is far ahead of the times.I have been to both cities about 3 years ago and Phoenix dissapointed me,but I am going this summer,not cause I want to but I have to so I was going to try and make the best of it but from the guide there really isnt too much to do other than sports and resorts and Im not going to enjoy any outdoor activities in 110 degree heat.

[Saul]

VegasPilgram's post from page 1 is on the money. Denver vs. Phoenix is pretty much a wash. Major differences, (1) Denver has a much better downtown (PHX's is laughable), and (2) PHX is driveable to Vegas, SD, and LA while Denver is pretty much a land island (the Springs just isn't worth the gas). Other than that, they are comparable.

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by Patrick754

I just don't get the people that move to Phoenix and then proceed to complain about the lack of urban amenities and/or the heat. It's not as if Phoenix's climate and suburban design are closely guarded secrets. When I read such complaints I can only come to a few limited conclusions:

1. They're stupid/ignorant.

2. They're lazy and couldn't be bothered to take a drive downtown or spend 10 minutes on weather.com looking at temperature averages.

3. They're miserable people looking for a justification for their misery.

Whatevah!.... Less than two more months and I'm gone from this place! Then it's LA for one year while I do a one-year master's program at USC, then it's either stay there if for some reason I happen to love LA (I'm not expecting to be thrilled there either, it is an overcrowded, gritty city, but I'm willing to bet $20 Los Angeles is going to be a LOT more urban, fun, and interesting than Phoenix), move to San Diego (which is currently my favorite city) or back to Denver (which is probably where I'll end up sooner or later anyway). The ONLY thing I'm going to miss about Phoenix (Tempe, actually) is the Arizona State University Sun Devils. I'm glad I went to ASU and lived here since Fall 04. I've learned a lot more about myself, and what it is I like and don't like. Whose the insecure one-- me, or you, who feels threatened by my comments (and other posters who are critical of Phoenix) and has to take the time to respond on an online relocation forum? Really, if you are 100% content being in Phoenix, why waste your time on a forum meant for people who want relocation advice? You can call the critics "whiners" all you want, but all that does is attack the speaker; it doesn't address the core issues at all.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

Whatevah!.... Less than two more months and I'm gone from this place! Then it's LA for one year while I do a one-year master's program at USC, then it's either stay there if for some reason I happen to love LA (I'm not expecting to be thrilled there either, it is an overcrowded, gritty city, but I'm willing to bet $20 Los Angeles is going to be a LOT more urban, fun, and interesting than Phoenix), move to San Diego (which is currently my favorite city) or back to Denver (which is probably where I'll end up sooner or later anyway). The ONLY thing I'm going to miss about Phoenix (Tempe, actually) is the Arizona State University Sun Devils. I'm glad I went to ASU and lived here since Fall 04. I've learned a lot more about myself, and what it is I like and don't like. Whose the insecure one-- me, or you, who feels threatened by my comments (and other posters who are critical of Phoenix) and has to take the time to respond on an online relocation forum? Really, if you are 100% content being in Phoenix, why waste your time on a forum meant for people who want relocation advice? You can call the critics "whiners" all you want, but all that does is attack the speaker; it doesn't address the core issues at all.

VP -- The tone of this makes me a little nervous. You've made so many good contributions to this board -- to the point that I respect your posts even when we disagree. Nevertheless, the tone here suggests we may be hearing from another Irwin in the future. If you really leave with positive memories of only the Sun Devils (a surprising outcome given some of your prior posts) and otherwise have negative feelings about Phoenix, then I'll hope you focus on productive posts in the boards for LA, San Diego, Denver, or wherever you end up. Good luck no matter where life takes you.

[Patrick754]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

Whose the insecure one-- me, or you, who feels threatened by my comments (and other posters who are critical of Phoenix) and has to take the time to respond on an online relocation forum? Really, if you are 100% content being in Phoenix, why waste your time on a forum meant for people who want relocation advice? You can call the critics "whiners" all you want, but all that does is attack the speaker; it doesn't address the core issues at all.

There's no need to make it personal. I didn't direct my post at you. I happen to think you make some useful observations about Phoenix.