Coyotes Moving From Glendale: Advanced talks with Phoenix or ASU (to stay, color)

[ScottsdaleMark]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

Hardcore sports fans lose touch with reality after the TV is turned off. Some people actually believe they are part of the team. Their day is ruined when the team that plays 12 home games in their state loses. The owner can live in another state or country. Not a player has to be from the state. They will overlook wife-beaters sports stars, rapist, and thugs. "There" team has to win and they will rationize that is a great deal for society. At least to me, those emotions are not logical. In my world, (just like my movies and TV studios), they need to make it on their own.

This is well stated. I get so weary of all the off-the-field issues being simultaneously tolerated AND decried by the fans and media (e.g., "Can you believe what Adrian Peterson did?" and "Does this mean the Cardinals can trade for Adrian Peterson?" which was a major sports radio topic in Arizona for much of 2015). I guess that's part of what they get paid so much money for -- being constantly hated on and loved on, concurrently.

Sports is entertainment and entertainment is just that, and unfortunately many entertaining people make problematic personal choices. And, of course there are some who seem to be genuinely good people.

That said, so, too, will you encounter people whose personal values/choices disagree with you, in all walks of life -- in your job, in your hobbies, in your community, and likely even among your own relatives.

The issue seems to be that in sports we seem to both try to hold people to some kind of moral standard, while at the same time prioritizing performance over all and chewing up and spitting out athletes like a commodity. So someone like Greg Hardy gets paid ten million dollars to simultaneously be the object of everyone's hatred and a very highly compensated employee...but as soon as he stops performing, he will be cast aside and everyone will act like none of it ever happened or meant anything.

Sometimes I think we'd all be better off without any sports at all. But, at the same time, I loved playing sports as a kid and I still enjoy watching sports occasionally. Lower salaries or amateurism aren't necessarily the answer because that just redirects where the money goes. Look at the NCAA -- the most corrupt, predatory meat market of them all. I can barely bring myself to watch revenue-generating college sports anymore. Almost nothing is immune...Little League baseball, which in theory should be the purest, least profit-motivated sports imaginable, is a big cash cow that airs its final playoff rounds on national television. We can't just let these kids play baseball, we have to turn it into a profit generator.

To the extent that one believes all of the above to be negative issues, I think I and everyone else who watches or attends sporting events has to accept some of the blame. We've spent too much money and provided too much profit incentive and our dollars created these monsters. I go to a couple of professional sporting events a year with my family, I read sports articles on the internet, and I still watch Cardinals games on TV, during which I see the advertisements that they sold, and therefore I'm part of the economics of the sport, too. So, clearly, despite all my concerns, I do still find some value and enjoyment in sports.

I guess that's just human endeavor for you. Fraught with failure and unintended consequences, but not without pleasure or merit.

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by AlohaAZ

They should have put "Coyotes and Suns" in that headline.

Yeah but would that stir the pot?

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by AlohaAZ

Wow, that's a total generalization right there. I'm a sports fan and plenty rational and logical. Of course they're not my team. I have no control over their operations.

Congrats. I know too many people who are convinced they are "their" team.

Originally Posted by AlohaAZ

But your point about foreign born players relating to the team name makes no sense and can only be made up by you. If you had been paying attention, you'd know Quebec is in line with Las Vegas for expansion. Nice try, though. If they ever move, which is highly unlikely in the near future, you can say "I told you so" if that will make you feel better.

Why do you think I mentioned Quebec?

The reason why I keep on mentioning foreign owners and players is because there SHOULD be more of a connection to various teams (and very little to others).

Example: when I played hockey, that was MY team. When my son player HS hockey, I got excited and felt a deep connection to HIS team (he was my son). When I route for my Alma Mater (UofMN), I have a connection. I went to college there, know people who player their now and before. They are MN players, USA players, and they cannot go ANYWHERE. As I get farther away, from the source I care less and less and less. Rationally speaking, should I really care about a team that is owned by a foreign person who doesn't live here? Players who are foreign and don't live here? If they can make more $$'s, they will leave (players, owners, etc). Hence, I'm logical. I won't wear their shirts around public and have "team pride" because they are NOT my team. Simple.

[Bates419]

Your stance on not local players is just silly. Shane Doan has lived in AZ since 95. He's grown up and raised his family there. He's probably a US citizen right now and other players also probably are or are working on it. They probably intend to spend their retired years right there in Scottsdale. Half the team have been here for 5 plus years, they live in AZ. They just happen to go away for a few months in summer, just like you do I believe.

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

Congrats. I know too many people who are convinced they are "their" team.



Why do you think I mentioned Quebec?

The reason why I keep on mentioning foreign owners and players is because there SHOULD be more of a connection to various teams (and very little to others).

Example: when I played hockey, that was MY team. When my son player HS hockey, I got excited and felt a deep connection to HIS team (he was my son). When I route for my Alma Mater (UofMN), I have a connection. I went to college there, know people who player their now and before. They are MN players, USA players, and they cannot go ANYWHERE. As I get farther away, from the source I care less and less and less. Rationally speaking, should I really care about a team that is owned by a foreign person who doesn't live here? Players who are foreign and don't live here? If they can make more $$'s, they will leave (players, owners, etc). Hence, I'm logical. I won't wear their shirts around public and have "team pride" because they are NOT my team. Simple.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Bates419

Your stance on not local players is just silly. Shane Doan has lived in AZ since 95. He's grown up and raised his family there. He's probably a US citizen right now and other players also probably are or are working on it. They probably intend to spend their retired years right there in Scottsdale. Half the team have been here for 5 plus years, they live in AZ. They just happen to go away for a few months in summer, just like you do I believe.

Silly? I call it logical. Did Shane play on the American Olympic team in 2006? Nope, it seems he was on the Canadian team. A serious question. Would you be a fan for the Canadian Olympic team if only 2 players were from Canada? OF COURSE NOT. If you did, could I please call a spade a spade and label you as illogical?

Listen. I don't have any problem with people playing hockey in the NHL from other countries. I don't care if the owners are from Istanbul. I too will pay to see a pro hockey game and marvel at their athleticism with 100% foreign players. I'm simply pointing out how illogical it is for people to really be so passionate about hockey here and calling them their team. This point isn't my focus but rather I am explaining my logic (others were confused so I explained). I realize it's rather tough to punch holes in this point of view (and is why no one has a good counter argument).

In summary, it should not be a priority to spend tax dollars and continue the cycle of subsiding athletes who make millions and owners who are worth (sometimes) billions. Sink or swim. If every town and state says it, the problem will be fixed. Wages come down, stadiums are streamlined, ONE person owns the building and keep the profits, etc. That's my only point.

[Bates419]

I think the thread is about the Coyotes, not the US National team. I'm a Toronto Maple leaf fan from way back. I don't care if a player is from Toronto, New York, or Istanbul, if they play for the Leafs they are on "My" team. Your stance in regards to Coyotes and US National players is just as silly as I suggested.

[Bates419]

I assume you didn't cheer for Brett Hull at those same Olympics???

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Bates419

I think the thread is about the Coyotes, not the US National team. I'm a Toronto Maple leaf fan from way back. I don't care if a player is from Toronto, New York, or Istanbul, if they play for the Leafs they are on "My" team. Your stance in regards to Coyotes and US National players is just as silly as I suggested.

I think you appreciate my question but without answering. So I wonder if you intentionally dodged it. Allow me to clarify. Would you consider the Canadian Olympic team your team and proud if they won the gold (assuming they use Canadians)? How about if the Canadian Olympic team was full of ROW (Rest of the World) players? Would you remotely feel the same allegiance? I think you get my "silly" point.

A lot of people don't care if the Coyotes stay or leave. All things being equal, why not keep them if they don't cost them personally (in the form of taxes). But they are going to have to bring it to a vote. To get it "sold", the strategy is to drag in ASU along with the Sun's into the mix. It is the ONLY way it has a snowball chance in H_ll of passing this. Cause the bulk of PHX area people don't feel a nickels worth of allegiance. Based off of my above logic, why should they?

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Bates419

I assume you didn't cheer for Brett Hull at those same Olympics???

I bought his old lake lot (Island Lake) north of Duluth MN. Hull played for UMD (not UofMN). I know a couple old timers that played with him.

[Bates419]

An Olympic team is a team from one's Country. There will never be a Canadian team full of not from Canada players. The comparison of an Olympic team to a local City team is really silly. There have been players on the Canadian team who were not born in Canada. I have cheered for them as much as the players who were born in Canada. This issue is more of a soccer thing, to choose Nationality of convenience, and rarely happens in hockey so it's a non issue. Now back to where your silliness started, the Coyotes all live in AZ so they are in fact the local team.

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

I think you appreciate my question but without answering. So I wonder if you intentionally dodged it. Allow me to clarify. Would you consider the Canadian Olympic team your team and proud if they won the gold (assuming they use Canadians)? How about if the Canadian Olympic team was full of ROW (Rest of the World) players? Would you remotely feel the same allegiance? I think you get my "silly" point.

A lot of people don't care if the Coyotes stay or leave. All things being equal, why not keep them if they don't cost them personally (in the form of taxes). But they are going to have to bring it to a vote. To get it "sold", the strategy is to drag in ASU along with the Sun's into the mix. It is the ONLY way it has a snowball chance in H_ll of passing this. Cause the bulk of PHX area people don't feel a nickels worth of allegiance. Based off of my above logic, why should they?