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I personally would avoid non-HOA properties like The Plague.
This is my 3rd owned property with a HOA and I have no issues with it. They were/are all non-intrusive, almost to a fault.
The small trade-off of not being able to leave your xmas decorations up through February or leaving a rusty unregistered vehicle on the lawn are far outweighed by not having to look at neighbors who do those things. Oh, and having your property value decline because of it.
I think that's gross misrepresentation.
We live in a Non-HOA neighborhood and there are no rusty, unregistered vehicles on lawns or any of the other stuff you mentioned. All our neighbors know each other, we take pride in our lawns and front yards and we talk to each other instead of running to an HOA for relief.
We just happen to NOT like to turn over our daily lives to a group of busybody nannies who think they know better than the rest of us how to live. I've seen so many nightmares with HOA's I avoid them like the plague. You can go along for a lot of years with a benign HOA board, then some Nanny shows up and makes everyone miserable. For every "rusty truck on the lawn" story you've heard, I can match it with legacy trees or beautiful flowering vines being uprooted because the "board" decided they don't like it, or the recent story of the woman who had lived in her home for decades and had a pet parrot being forced to sell her pet because some group bought the subdivision and installed an HOA, which decided they didn't like her bird.
HOA's have the capacity to become little tyrants at the drop of a dime, depending on who is willing to run for the HOA board (a thankless job that usually falls to the busybodies.) They cost too damned much, and the board members pay attention to things that are none of their damned business. I've owned rental properties and dealt with everything from the best to the worst, and as I said, it can change with just one person moving into the neighborhood and running for that office.
We just had one such person move into our neighborhood and start petitioning for us to install an HOA. She was politely invited to make a choice - knock it off or move. Glad we don't have an HOA already. She would have us all painting our homes the same color, taking the rocks out of our front lawn areas (she's not from AZ and thinks "rocks on front lawns are ugly and should be removed throughout the state...") It's EXACTLY this sort of person who has too much time on her hands that continues to convince me that HOA's give a handful of people too much power, which usually goes to their heads.
Yes - you can vote them out. But it takes time, energy, hassle, lawyers fees, and just creates enemies in the neighborhoods.
1. boats/rvs are usually parked in the backyard/side or the overabundant storage facilities everywhere.
2. quite a few older homes have been converted. Not sure if its racist to say Mexicans like to have large families with lots of kids.. So ill just say, garages here are needed to store stuff, the few days a year when we get the dust storms/haboobs, and the couple of weeks when it get to over 110.
3. well, theres not many lawns.. most are gravel. Anyone who has a lawn usually tries to take care of it. In the sub 200K range most cars are parked on the gravel yards, in the back yards, or will have the driveways maxed out.
4. that's not really a problem anywhere.
Two of the biggest reasons I can think of to have HOA in PHX, is
1. The Tejano music at 106 decibals from Thursday afternoon until Sunday afternoon.. and I literally mean they won't shut it off for four days during certain holidays and celebrations.
2. The chickens.... I strongly suggest before you buy a home anywhere in phoenix, go check out the area with your windows down, and drive slowly around just at first light before sunrise... and listen for the roosters.. I almost bought a house in a non-hoa area until I ran through the neighborhood checking it out during inspections... That's not something you want to be woken up by every morning..
We don't have an HOA, but we do have covenants for the subdivision when we move in. These are common sense restrictions like noise after 11pm, no livestock allowed in yards - which includes chickens, no parking in front of a driveway unless it's yours - which is also the law, and don't leave your trash cans out on the street. You can ask to see the covenants for any neighborhood before you buy. You may find that they take care of your greatest concerns without having an HOA.
As for boats and RV's parked on the side of the house - I don't mind that. It helps me figure out who has a boat in case I wanna go fishin'! Our homes are older and the lots are larger, so most of us have RV gates on the side. Some homes have converted the garages into bedrooms and park in their driveways or side yards at night. We have a few guys who work on their vehicles in their garages. I like that. I can roll my car over to them and ask them to take a look or help me out.
I think it gets down to what you think a neighborhood is and what your general life philosophy is. I come from a small town in the midwest. We always KNEW our neighbors and we were raised to work out our issues with each other instead of bringing in third parties. If we couldn't work it out, we figured out how to live with it. Of course, this excludes criminal behavior, which is a whole 'nother conversation outside the range of an HOA. For my part, I wish to be surrounded by neighbors that I know and like. I make an effort to introduce myself to everyone who moves in and I'm part of the annual block party we plan. An HOA really is outsourcing all of that. You want someone else to take care of your daily concerns. If you really don't want to meet your neighbors and don't mind antagonizing them with your anonymous complaints, go for an HOA. If you want to be a neighbor, take the plunge with a non-HOA.
I think that's gross misrepresentation.
We live in a Non-HOA neighborhood and there are no rusty, unregistered vehicles on lawns or any of the other stuff you mentioned. All our neighbors know each other, we take pride in our lawns and front yards and we talk to each other instead of running to an HOA for relief.
We just happen to NOT like to turn over our daily lives to a group of busybody nannies who think they know better than the rest of us how to live. I've seen so many nightmares with HOA's I avoid them like the plague. You can go along for a lot of years with a benign HOA board, then some Nanny shows up and makes everyone miserable. For every "rusty truck on the lawn" story you've heard, I can match it with legacy trees or beautiful flowering vines being uprooted because the "board" decided they don't like it, or the recent story of the woman who had lived in her home for decades and had a pet parrot being forced to sell her pet because some group bought the subdivision and installed an HOA, which decided they didn't like her bird.
HOA's have the capacity to become little tyrants at the drop of a dime, depending on who is willing to run for the HOA board (a thankless job that usually falls to the busybodies.) They cost too damned much, and the board members pay attention to things that are none of their damned business. I've owned rental properties and dealt with everything from the best to the worst, and as I said, it can change with just one person moving into the neighborhood and running for that office.
We just had one such person move into our neighborhood and start petitioning for us to install an HOA. She was politely invited to make a choice - knock it off or move. Glad we don't have an HOA already. She would have us all painting our homes the same color, taking the rocks out of our front lawn areas (she's not from AZ and thinks "rocks on front lawns are ugly and should be removed throughout the state...") It's EXACTLY this sort of person who has too much time on her hands that continues to convince me that HOA's give a handful of people too much power, which usually goes to their heads.
Yes - you can vote them out. But it takes time, energy, hassle, lawyers fees, and just creates enemies in the neighborhoods.
You're fortunate to live in a nice non-HOA community that people take pride in. In my way of thinking, that's the way it should be. Unfortunately, there are more than a few people out there who are frankly slobs and don't care about their community or take pride in their home.
While I've heard of aggressive boards/management groups in HOA's as you outlined, I've also heard the opposite more than a few times.....some HOA's not enforcing basic rules everyone signed up for when they bought their house, basically acting as dues collectors for the most part. We know friends who live in several different HOA communities where many of the basic rules go unenforced. One of the communities our friends live in was so bad in not enforcing the rules that the board was replaced and they fired the management group. They weren't looking to be tyrants/control freaks but just wanted to get the basic rules enforced they signed up for when they bought their house....people who had property that were full of weeds, unpaid dues not being enforced/collected, basic maintenance not being done/enforced, etc. Someone else we know who works in the real estate business told us one management group/board actually got booted out by the city and replaced with a new group as they were just acting as dues collectors, not enforcing any rules.
In the end, the choice to live in an HOA or not is indeed a personal one and I can see the +/- of both.
In the early 90's we moved into a nice non HOA subdivision in NW Phoenix, after a few years and homeowner turnovers the newer residents that moved into the area weeds became a problem, junk cars started showing up, RV's parked everywhere, houses needing up-keeping painting and yard work, and in general the area started to depreciate.
We moved to an HOA area and what a difference that made. No problems now and if a newbie comes in and doesn't keep up their place the HOA is on them immediately.
I think that's gross misrepresentation.
We live in a Non-HOA neighborhood and there are no rusty, unregistered vehicles on lawns or any of the other stuff you mentioned. All our neighbors know each other, we take pride in our lawns and front yards and we talk to each other instead of running to an HOA for relief.
We just happen to NOT like to turn over our daily lives to a group of busybody nannies who think they know better than the rest of us how to live. I've seen so many nightmares with HOA's I avoid them like the plague. You can go along for a lot of years with a benign HOA board, then some Nanny shows up and makes everyone miserable. For every "rusty truck on the lawn" story you've heard, I can match it with legacy trees or beautiful flowering vines being uprooted because the "board" decided they don't like it, or the recent story of the woman who had lived in her home for decades and had a pet parrot being forced to sell her pet because some group bought the subdivision and installed an HOA, which decided they didn't like her bird.
HOA's have the capacity to become little tyrants at the drop of a dime, depending on who is willing to run for the HOA board (a thankless job that usually falls to the busybodies.) They cost too damned much, and the board members pay attention to things that are none of their damned business. I've owned rental properties and dealt with everything from the best to the worst, and as I said, it can change with just one person moving into the neighborhood and running for that office.
We just had one such person move into our neighborhood and start petitioning for us to install an HOA. She was politely invited to make a choice - knock it off or move. Glad we don't have an HOA already. She would have us all painting our homes the same color, taking the rocks out of our front lawn areas (she's not from AZ and thinks "rocks on front lawns are ugly and should be removed throughout the state...") It's EXACTLY this sort of person who has too much time on her hands that continues to convince me that HOA's give a handful of people too much power, which usually goes to their heads.
Yes - you can vote them out. But it takes time, energy, hassle, lawyers fees, and just creates enemies in the neighborhoods.
I knew there was a reason I liked you.
While I don't live in Arizona yet, I am still planning to move there. One topic that frequently comes up during family discussions about the move is "to HOA or not HOA." Where I live on Long Island, NY there are very few HOA's. I can understand some of the benefits to them, but I'm quite certain that I will not be buying a home with a HOA. While some might be OK, there is too much risk for intrusive behavior. I'm an American, and I believe in freedom. It's bad enough that our government can over reach or create laws that don't make sense or benefit the citizens it governs. To live in a community where a local board can dictate how I live is too much for me.
And while we generally don't have boulders in our yards over here, I like the look. But even if I didn't, to move to another state and decide that anything should be changed or removed "throughout the state" is asinine. I plan on moving to Arizona because I like certain things about it. I don't plan on bringing Long Island with me. I think this is a problem which causes a lot of stress, both for the people moving out of state, and for the locals who have to deal with new out of state neighbors.
While I don't live in Arizona yet, I am still planning to move there. One topic that frequently comes up during family discussions about the move is "to HOA or not HOA." Where I live on Long Island, NY there are very few HOA's. I can understand some of the benefits to them, but I'm quite certain that I will not be buying a home with a HOA. While some might be OK, there is too much risk for intrusive behavior. I'm an American, and I believe in freedom. It's bad enough that our government can over reach or create laws that don't make sense or benefit the citizens it governs. To live in a community where a local board can dictate how I live is too much for me.
And that is your choice. Just understand that it will cut down dramatically on the number of homes that you can purchase. And they will almost invariably be older homes (pre-1980).
And that is your choice. Just understand that it will cut down dramatically on the number of homes that you can purchase. And they will almost invariably be older homes (pre-1980).
My house is post 1980 (Late 80's) and not in an HOA, though my subdivision is literally surrounded by HOA subdivisions. I think there are still a good number of non-HOA subdivisions that are post 1980, but it's hard to predict where they are. Newer homes than 1980, or even newer than 80's, can be found, but some will be in outlying areas.
The easiest way to see what's out there that's not in an HOA is to use that as one of the search parameters on the homes for sale websites.
All HOA's are not created equal, so if the OP or someone looking for a non HOA property can't find what they are looking for, they will have to look at which HOA's are less intrusive/resrtrictive. They are out there.
In the early 90's we moved into a nice non HOA subdivision in NW Phoenix, after a few years and homeowner turnovers the newer residents that moved into the area weeds became a problem, junk cars started showing up, RV's parked everywhere, houses needing up-keeping painting and yard work, and in general the area started to depreciate.
We moved to an HOA area and what a difference that made. No problems now and if a newbie comes in and doesn't keep up their place the HOA is on them immediately.
I get where you're coming from, but cities do have ordinances for junk cars & weeds & they can work pretty well if other homeowners do their part. One of my rentals had a hillbilly neighbor that wouldn't clear the weeds or the junk from his yard & after a few complaints to the city, he decided it was in his best interest to move. Phoenix even has an iPhone app for blight & a website where other property owners can see the Shiza- storms they're creating. Great fun to open the app & take pics right in front of the neighbor.. The pics are automatically geo-coded, time-stamped & sent right to the people at the city who can make life more interesting to the offender.
I can certainly see the value of a well-run HOA, but well-run doesn't come cheap & tacking another $xxx to your monthly bills kinda defeats the purpose of living in a "low tax" state. I really really don't care what color my neighbor's cable TV wire is, or if they put their trash bins out too early & I've gotten written up for those things when I lived in an HOA neighborhood.
One mentally unstable HOA/property manager ruined me forever as to hoa's & they can talk until their heads pop off about "preserving property values" - to me, any property in an HOA neighborhood has a value of $0. It's one thing if you're paying the HOA to take care of outside maintenance, it's another thing entirely to be paying (in my case, $80/mo)- to have some power-trippin goober tell me to go pick my weeds.. Lol, I'm writing the checks, *you* pick the damn weeds.
On that note when we bought our first home out here we were greeted by the city with a welcome to the city, note clean up the weeds you bought or we'll fine you
Again, this was the city and not the HOA and the notice was stuck to the door within 2 days of our close
I get where you're coming from, but cities do have ordinances for junk cars & weeds & they can work pretty well if other homeowners do their part. One of my rentals had a hillbilly neighbor that wouldn't clear the weeds or the junk from his yard & after a few complaints to the city, he decided it was in his best interest to move. Phoenix even has an iPhone app for blight & a website where other property owners can see the Shiza- storms they're creating. Great fun to open the app & take pics right in front of the neighbor.. The pics are automatically geo-coded, time-stamped & sent right to the people at the city who can make life more interesting to the offender.
I can certainly see the value of a well-run HOA, but well-run doesn't come cheap & tacking another $xxx to your monthly bills kinda defeats the purpose of living in a "low tax" state. I really really don't care what color my neighbor's cable TV wire is, or if they put their trash bins out too early & I've gotten written up for those things when I lived in an HOA neighborhood.
One mentally unstable HOA/property manager ruined me forever as to hoa's & they can talk until their heads pop off about "preserving property values" - to me, any property in an HOA neighborhood has a value of $0. It's one thing if you're paying the HOA to take care of outside maintenance, it's another thing entirely to be paying (in my case, $80/mo)- to have some power-trippin goober tell me to go pick my weeds.. Lol, I'm writing the checks, *you* pick the damn weeds.
That sounds good if a city has rules to keep some neighbor from bringing down other property values with things like junk all over the yard, weeds, non-stop barking dogs, etc. but the key is if the city follows through with enforcing the rules consistently throughout the city. Is Phoenix good in this aspect?
For me, what gives an HOA value is at the master planned community level. Pools, workout equipment, tennis courts, etc. make it all more value oriented, if one uses such perks, and if the monthly price is right. Of course if one doesn't use these types of facilities/offerings, it's back to $0 I suppose for some.
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