ADOT - South Mountain Freeway complete in 2020 (Phoenix, Tolleson: high school, airport)
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The SMF will definitely take traffic off of the 10, but the 10 will still be a nightmare. Most commuting traffic will have no need for the SMF, except for the few who live on the west side an work in the SE valley. The fact that the 202 SMF will tie into the 10 at 55th Avenue will just cause the current evening jam that normally loosens up by 51st Avenue to intensify as trucks just pour back onto the 10.
The I-10 is not limited to commuters. The trucking industry uses the 10 to commute across the country and eliminating them will relieve congestion in a major way. If the commuters are not having to fight with 18 wheelers during rush hour, the 10 will be significantly improved.
Furthermore, the 10 is already improved from 15 years ago. When the 101 was extended, that relieved a lot of the congestion. Everything is relative. While this may feel like a nightmare to you. I still remember those days, and the traffic was literally stand still back then. Unless there is an accident, it's congested but at least it moves. Even with morning rush hour traffic, it only takes me 30 minutes to drive from my home in the southeast valley to central Phoenix. There are sections that are very congested but once you move past the Broadway curve, it is not bad at all. And with the addition of the SMF, it will improve even more.
Last edited by azriverfan.; 12-31-2015 at 09:42 AM..
ADOT and FHWA are still being sued by PARC. Nothing is final until the lawsuit is settled this spring. Even if PARC were to lose, they could easily appeal the ruling, further delaying construction of the freeway. The SMF will definitely take traffic off of the 10, but the 10 will still be a nightmare. Most commuting traffic will have no need for the SMF, except for the few who live on the west side an work in the SE valley. The fact that the 202 SMF will tie into the 10 at 55th Avenue will just cause the current evening jam that normally loosens up by 51st Avenue to intensify as trucks just pour back onto the 10.
The 55th Ave tie in to I-10 is the worst part of this whole project. I really wish it would flow into the 101 at 99th Ave but I know that ship has sailed.
Idk if id say they could easily appeal it. The Circuit Court is in San Francisco and judging by the firm used by PARC they aren't operating on an unlimited budget. Unlike ADOT.
They wrapped up pre trial conferences a few days ago, that's when they discuss the case and a timeline for discovery. The fact that ADOT came out with this info means that at some level the merits of the cases are being revealed. Motions for Summary Judment take place in Jan Feb and March. If PARC has a weak case ADOT will win that motion and we can move on.
As for the 10 I agree at some level, but as trucks would be redirected it would have a tremendous effect on loosening inner city traffic.
They believe they have a strong case and can easily appeal and get this freeway stopped if judgment is ruled in favor of ADOT and FHWA. According to their website, they have raised nearly $300K toward a $500K goal to fight this freeway. That's pretty significant. ADOT is not operating on an unlimited budget to get this pushed through because ADOT does not have unlimited funds.
Most of the traffic on the 10 seems to be commuting traffic. If traffic ends up flowing better on the 10 due to lessened truck traffic, some people who take the paralleling surface streets (Buckeye, Van Buren, McDowell, Thomas, and even Indian School) will just start taking the freeway as an alternative, clogging it right back up again. There are significant delays on all major east/west surface streets near the 10, especially in the morning, partly because the city of Phoenix decided that these streets only needed to be two lanes eastbound. Couple that will school zones, accidents, horribly timed lights and the occasional no dedicated right turn lane and those streets become a nightmare. A free flowing freeway will absolutely take people off of those streets.
I'm definitely not against the 202 SMF, but I'm not sure it's going to have a particularly noticeable impact on traffic volumes on other freeways. That mentality is one of the reasons LA has such an extensive freeway network and they're to the point where most every freeway is a nightmare at some point during the day. We cannot build our way out of congestion. At some point we're going to have to accept that we're a big city with bad traffic and just deal with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan.
The I-10 is not limited to commuters. The trucking industry uses the 10 to commute across the country and eliminating them will relieve congestion in a major way. If the commuters are not having to fight with 18 wheelers during rush hour, the 10 will be significantly improved.
Furthermore, the 10 is already improved from 15 years ago. When the 101 was extended, that relieved a lot of the congestion. Everything is relative. While this may feel like a nightmare to you. I still remember those days, and the traffic was literally stand still back then. Unless there is an accident, it's congested but at least it moves. Even with morning rush hour traffic, it only takes me 30 minutes to drive from my home in the southeast valley to central Phoenix. There are sections that are very congested but once you move past the Broadway curve, it is not bad at all. And with the addition of the SMF, it will improve even more.
My issue is the 10 west of the Stack. Unless you routinely use the 10 west of downtown, you don't know how bad it already is. The majority of the traffic on the 10 is commuting traffic. The majority of the vehicles are not trucks and the majority of the vehicles have Arizona license plates with local dealer frames. Even if you were to remove every truck off the 10, the freeway will still be slow both morning and evening. As I mentioned above, any temporary improvement to the 10 would be quickly reversed by people who travel on paralleling surface streets hopping back on the freeway (especially on the west side). Couple that with continued population growth and the problem will just repeat itself. When truck traffic pours back on the 10 at 55th Ave, there will be a major backup with trucks merging onto a freeway that will not be widening at all to accommodate SMF traffic.
They believe they have a strong case and can easily appeal and get this freeway stopped if judgment is ruled in favor of ADOT and FHWA. According to their website, they have raised nearly $300K toward a $500K goal to fight this freeway. That's pretty significant. ADOT is not operating on an unlimited budget to get this pushed through because ADOT does not have unlimited funds.
Most of the traffic on the 10 seems to be commuting traffic. If traffic ends up flowing better on the 10 due to lessened truck traffic, some people who take the paralleling surface streets (Buckeye, Van Buren, McDowell, Thomas, and even Indian School) will just start taking the freeway as an alternative, clogging it right back up again. There are significant delays on all major east/west surface streets near the 10, especially in the morning, partly because the city of Phoenix decided that these streets only needed to be two lanes eastbound. Couple that will school zones, accidents, horribly timed lights and the occasional no dedicated right turn lane and those streets become a nightmare. A free flowing freeway will absolutely take people off of those streets.
I'm definitely not against the 202 SMF, but I'm not sure it's going to have a particularly noticeable impact on traffic volumes on other freeways. That mentality is one of the reasons LA has such an extensive freeway network and they're to the point where most every freeway is a nightmare at some point during the day. We cannot build our way out of congestion. At some point we're going to have to accept that we're a big city with bad traffic and just deal with it.
My issue is the 10 west of the Stack. Unless you routinely use the 10 west of downtown, you don't know how bad it already is. The majority of the traffic on the 10 is commuting traffic. The majority of the vehicles are not trucks and the majority of the vehicles have Arizona license plates with local dealer frames. Even if you were to remove every truck off the 10, the freeway will still be slow both morning and evening. As I mentioned above, any temporary improvement to the 10 would be quickly reversed by people who travel on paralleling surface streets hopping back on the freeway (especially on the west side). Couple that with continued population growth and the problem will just repeat itself. When truck traffic pours back on the 10 at 55th Ave, there will be a major backup with trucks merging onto a freeway that will not be widening at all to accommodate SMF traffic.
If they have a strong case they won't have to appeal because the Summary Judgment would be denied and it would go to trial. The 9th Circuit has discretion over the appeal, PARC would have to somehow fund themselves to get to San Francisco to access the appeals court. ADOT already has a CA based firm representing them. It would be hard for PARC to appeal.
They don't hand out appeals like Candy especially in the federal system.
If they have a strong case they won't have to appeal because the Summary Judgment would be denied and it would go to trial. The 9th Circuit has discretion over the appeal, PARC would have to somehow fund themselves to get to San Francisco to access the appeals court. ADOT already has a CA based firm representing them. It would be hard for PARC to appeal.
They don't hand out appeals like Candy especially in the federal system.
They don't have to "get to San Francisco", if they need to appeal, before the oral argument which is in person. That's way down the road. (no pun intended) Everything else (briefs, etc.) is done electronically or by mail. And, they don't need California lawyers, either. The firm they have, whoever that is (I don't have the case number) can represent them-- getting admitted before the Ninth Circuit, if they aren't already, is pretty simple.
They don't have to "get to San Francisco", if they need to appeal, before the oral argument which is in person. That's way down the road. (no pun intended) Everything else (briefs, etc.) is done electronically or by mail. And, they don't need California lawyers, either. The firm they have, whoever that is (I don't have the case number) can represent them-- getting admitted before the Ninth Circuit, if they aren't already, is pretty simple.
Right so they do the oral arguments in SF. The point of the CA firm is that travel costs are cheaper for ADOT. For hearings. PARC would need to expend a lot of resources to appeal this case. If the merits are there it will be tried at the DC in Phoenix.
Was there any reason highway 101 isn't connected to the SMF project?
Well if and it's a big if the new SR 30 is ever built, it would be a new freeway connecting the 202 (new South Mountain Freeway) and the 303 (once it is extended south of I-10). Then instead of being dumped out at 55th, one could use this new highway to get back to I-10 all the way down at the 303. Construction is only 10 years away in 2026! Won't the new I-11, if it's ever built, be an even better bypass of Phoenix and the Valley for the through drivers.
Well if and it's a big if the new SR 30 is ever built, it would be a new freeway connecting the 202 (new South Mountain Freeway) and the 303 (once it is extended south of I-10). Then instead of being dumped out at 55th, one could use this new highway to get back to I-10 all the way down at the 303. Construction is only 10 years away in 2026! Won't the new I-11, if it's ever built, be an even better bypass of Phoenix and the Valley for the through drivers.
SR 30 would be a much needed reliever freeway for the west valley.
It wouldn't be a Phoenix bypass as much as it would a crush hour bypass because it would take some of the traffic burden away from I-10.
As it stands now I-10 is a congested mess and more options are needed for west valley commuters including these additional freeways, light rail expansion, and even commuter rail.
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Won't the new I-11, if it's ever built, be an even better bypass of Phoenix and the Valley for the through drivers.
