Moving From the Mid-West to the AZ

[JTW2013]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

Two points. I mentioned earlier to "follow the money". Meaning, families that do well economically normally do better in the classroom because they have a more motivated family culture. See a map of AZ income levels Median Income Across the US | WNYC . You will notice that BASIS Charters Inc enter into more upscale portions of town (#2 and #4 ranked follow this trend). If you live outside of those areas and attend because of open enrollment, then someone is willing to drive their kids a long distance and that says a lot of about their family culture. So in a sense, the open enrollment attracts a motivated family culture which is part of the reason why the averages are higher.

BASIS has a much more rigorous course work, mandates parent involvement, etc. The reality is students who apply understand the demands and only the strong survive. From Why Are 2 of U.S. News's Top 5 'Best High Schools' Arizona Charter Schools? - The Atlantic "And a charter school can be "open enrollment" by definition but still end up weeding out students who are less likely to succeed under its model. For some kids the academic demands are overwhelming, or there aren't enough extracurricular activities to meet their interests. Some families balk at the longer academic day, additional homework and requirements for parental involvement. That selectivity is why the U.S. News rankings also include separate lists for magnets and charter schools."

In short, BASIS goes into more motivated family culture area and opens up an aggressively paced school that weeds out the under performers because they cannot keep up. It's not intentional but a fact of life. So those who attend have to be motivated and HAVE to be smarter than average. The end result is they got a World Class education but other AZ districts leave the bulk of the students in the dust. So the reality is only the strong survive and the averages are higher because the slower kids are long gone. I'm not saying this is wrong but rather why the average scores are extremely high (100% college bound ready). Of course, the BASIS schools themselves (school culture) deserve a good deal of the credit.

Here is my take... In many well funded areas of the country including the Midwest, you have tremendously challenging classes and motivated teachers. Students have a lot of opportunities and courses that are also a cut above the rest of the courses inside of the exact school (assuming the school is large). In these schools the same things happens as with BASIS: kids who cannot keep up also are forced to drop advanced classes. But the school AVERAGE standardized scores will have dropped because they also serve average and below average students (lower motivation and brainpower). So our kids in the Midwest got amazing instruction because it was well funded and they had motivated teachers. It just so happens about 1/2 of the student body wasn't nearly as motivated as our family culture. So we got World Class in an average MN ranked school. They were taking advanced classes, went to college for free in 11th and 12th grade, had gifted programs, etc etc. The caliber of education in our "average" MN school didn't hold them back because they had incredible opportunities (class size, caliber of teachers, paid advanced classes, etc, etc).

This exercise shows how the Outliers were created. The #2 and #4 school didn't happen by accident. It could be postulated that because the AZ schools are less-than-ideal,families are willing to drive. I would not drive 1/2 an hour for that BASIS school if I had an average caliber Midwest high school in my hood. That's because I know that it doesn't matter when you have programs in place to challenge motivated and smart students. Now if we raised our kids in AZ, I'd make that drive to one of the BASIS schools. To the OP. Get close to one of the BASIS schools (hope your kids can handle the workload) and pry you get picked up in the lottery. Then you too can have a Midwest public school caliber education in AZ.

Exactly! We had a discussion here a few months ago about what made well funded East Coast school districts so much better than anything we have here in AZ.

One thing that annoys me about Basis is how it is thrown out as an example of a good school when AZ schools are criticized. It's a diversionary tactic. Basis means just as much to the average AZ kid as Phoenix Country Day. It's completely irrelevant.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by JTW2013

Exactly! We had a discussion here a few months ago about what made well funded East Coast school districts so much better than anything we have here in AZ.

One thing that annoys me about Basis is how it is thrown out as an example of a good school when AZ schools are criticized. It's a diversionary tactic. Basis means just as much to the average AZ kid as Phoenix Country Day. It's completely irrelevant.

It annoys me too. The reality is the American public has about a 15 second attention span and just about everyone can be sold and hoodwinked. AZ knows how to blow just enough smoke up people's rearends to fool them into thinking AZ public schools are equal. That's why people parroted how great these 2 schools are (and they ARE) and they believe as a whole, AZ schools are at parity with other parts of the country. I explained the why. But when you dig deeper, it's easy to figure out how this happened.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Colt Cassidy

I'm closer to 99%.

Hard to argue with your point. In this specific thread, the Op's last visit was on 05-03-2016, @ 12:20 PM (you can see this by looking at "view public profile"). That's the exact time of the post. In other words, they ask a question and immediately closed their eyes and plugged their ears. About all we can hope for is a lurker might put this thread to use. Usually a 1st time poster will answer the OP's question 4 years later.

[Colt AZ]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

Hard to argue with your point. In this specific thread, the Op's last visit was on 05-03-2016, @ 12:20 PM (you can see this by looking at "view public profile"). That's the exact time of the post. In other words, they ask a question and immediately closed their eyes and plugged their ears. About all we can hope for is a lurker might put this thread to use. Usually a 1st time poster will answer the OP's question 4 years later.

Ain't that the truth?

[Dewey59]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

Hard to argue with your point. In this specific thread, the Op's last visit was on 05-03-2016, @ 12:20 PM (you can see this by looking at "view public profile"). That's the exact time of the post. In other words, they ask a question and immediately closed their eyes and plugged their ears. About all we can hope for is a lurker might put this thread to use. Usually a 1st time poster will answer the OP's question 4 years later.

Ha ha... ironic that they usually ask about the schools! I guess they want their kids to have a better education than they got, so they can actually understand how a forum works!

[DougStark]

MN, you made some good points. I haven't educated myself on this complicated problem (school funding/ student achievement, etc.) I am, however, very much in favor of charter schools and alternatives to failing public schools.

Yeah, isn't it ironic that some of the highest student funding is going on in failing school districts? (like D.C.) School funding per pupil and quality ed. do not automatically go hand-in-hand. I think we all know that. But, I'm uncomfortable that Arizona is near the bottom re: this metric; I'd be a lot happier if it was somewhere in the middle...