Light Rail is a Success Story (Phoenix, Tempe: condo, gated, living in)

[elcajones]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

Next apartment (and final one before leaving the valley) will be near the light rail, I love it. Our lease at our current place is up in September, and we are choosing between Camden Copper Square (7th St&Van Buren) or Pala Mesa (Apache at the Tempe city limit). Most likely going with Camden, considering Pala Mesa, because an old manager of our current complex and friend works there now

Camden copper square is a rough place in a rough area! And I have a lot of respect for Camden myself... If the train tracks weren't right to your south, I'd recommend Pala Mesa. It's the only thing that keeps me for calling it an awesome place to live. Just drove by it this afternoon as I went to Safeway on Dobson/Main before home .

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by elcajones

Camden copper square is a rough place in a rough area! And I have a lot of respect for Camden myself... If the train tracks weren't right to your south, I'd recommend Pala Mesa. It's the only thing that keeps me for calling it an awesome place to live. Just drove by it this afternoon as I went to Safeway on Dobson/Main before home .

Please, I live within walking distance of Copper Square now, that section of Van Buren hasn't been bad for 15-20 years, granted it gets worse east of 12th St, but where I live is worse and I don't feel unsafe

[43north87west]

Originally Posted by elcajones

Camden copper square is a rough place in a rough area! And I have a lot of respect for Camden myself... If the train tracks weren't right to your south, I'd recommend Pala Mesa. It's the only thing that keeps me for calling it an awesome place to live. Just drove by it this afternoon as I went to Safeway on Dobson/Main before home .

You aren't talking about the same area. This is about Central Phoenix.

[GeneR]

Great success story...until you look at cost. Notice how in the cited opinion piece (it is NOT a news item), written by politicians justifying their billions of dollars expenditure of tax money, did not mention COST. Riders pay about ⅓ of the operation cost, not a dime toward it’s development. How long would it take those 56,000 daily riders (an inflated number) to pay for the system?

Wonder why voters don’t trust politicos? Because the politicians deny reality!

[cjseliga]

Originally Posted by GeneR

Great success story...until you look at cost. Notice how in the cited opinion piece (it is NOT a news item), written by politicians justifying their billions of dollars expenditure of tax money, did not mention COST. Riders pay about ⅓ of the operation cost, not a dime toward it’s development. How long would it take those 56,000 daily riders (an inflated number) to pay for the system?

Wonder why voters don’t trust politicos? Because the politicians deny reality!

True, but in defense does any mass transit system in the US make money or break even? I thought I read somewhere that even the NYC Metro loses money, and if that system can't break even, no system in the entire US is going to break even!

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by cjseliga

True, but in defense does any mass transit system in the US make money or break even? I thought I read somewhere that even the NYC Metro loses money, and if that system can't break even, no system in the entire US is going to break even!

Absolutely right. No public transit -- whether or rail or bus -- in any U.S. city is 100% funded by passenger fares. Likewise, road building and maintenance is not even close to fully funded by fuel taxes and vehicle registration fees paid by drivers. For better or worse, all transportation is subsidized, so the question is how best to allocate those subsidies.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by GeneR

Great success story...until you look at cost. Notice how in the cited opinion piece (it is NOT a news item), written by politicians justifying their billions of dollars expenditure of tax money, did not mention COST. Riders pay about ⅓ of the operation cost, not a dime toward it’s development. How long would it take those 56,000 daily riders (an inflated number) to pay for the system?

Wonder why voters don’t trust politicos? Because the politicians deny reality!

Everything costs money. If you want more services, you will have to pay for it. The problem is when residents feel entitled to certain services but then think it should be low cost or free. It doesn't work that way. This is an age old problem in the Phoenix area. Residents complain about poor education and all of these aspects lacking in the Valley but then want to keep their taxes really low. Can't have it both ways.I think investing in public transportation is a worthwhile expenditure and yes, it's going to cost money.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

Everything costs money. If you want more services, you will have to pay for it. The problem is when residents feel entitled to certain services but then think it should be low cost or free. It doesn't work that way. This is an age old problem in the Phoenix area. Residents complain about poor education and all of these aspects lacking in the Valley but then want to keep their taxes really low. Can't have it both ways.I think investing in public transportation is a worthwhile expenditure and yes, it's going to cost money.

You nailed it, and this is one of the many reasons I don't like the right wing, anti-progress politics/attitude in this area

[pbenjamin]

Pretty good. We got to post #24 before the inevitable anti-rail blather came in.

[phenomenon]

Deja vu....the same debate every time light rail is brought up.