Utah Marketing Firm Clearlink to bring 500 jobs to Downtown Scottsdale (Oracle: 2015, school)

[dvxhd]

Originally Posted by westcoastbabe

I'd like to what encompasses a great salary. I'm sorry but $60,000 is an awesome salary. I'm surprised at some of the comments about the $60,000 salary.

Did you miss the part in the article that mentioned $14/hour? Or $37,000? The former is just over $29,000 per year, which isn't great. The latter is more doable, but it's not stellar. It also mentioned commission, which I would toss out because you don't know to how much that amounts. In college I worked at a call center, and if I were lucky I could earn another $300 per month in commission, though that was a rarity. Typically I made less than $100 extra per month. In any case, if someone works at this company they need to budget their lifestyle for $14/hour, exclusive of commission.

[westcoastbabe]

People can and do make it on $60,000 or even $37,000. It's called living within your means people. Its not about how much you make, but what you do with it.

[asufan]

Originally Posted by westcoastbabe

People can and do make it on $60,000 or even $37,000. It's called living within your means people. Its not about how much you make, but what you do with it.

I agree, but that's a totally different topic. No one is saying you can't *make it* and I mentioned that in a previous post. However we are talking about whether that is a good salary for management, and it really isn't. it would be difficult to have an average to above average house, stash $18,500 annually in retirement, take vacations and go out regularly on that salary. Not talking about making concessions and living within one's means.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by asufan

I agree, but that's a totally different topic. No one is saying you can't *make it* and I mentioned that in a previous post. However we are talking about whether that is a good salary for management, and it really isn't. it would be difficult to have an average to above average house, stash $18,500 annually in retirement, take vacations and go out regularly on that salary. Not talking about making concessions and living within one's means.

"Management" is a fairly ambiguous term and you cannot make assumptions about pay without accounting for qualifications (education, skill sets) and duties. Most sales management positions do not require formal education or specific skill sets (accounting skills, programming C ++). And even experience can be fairly negotiable in these areas. For a call center/sales management position, I don't think that salary is unreasonable for the Phoenix area. Westcoast babe isn't talking about surviving on a particular income but learning to live within one's means. She is referring to the the overall sense of entitlement people have with regard to spending money and affording a lifestyle that is well beyond their means. Our society has changed and everyone feels they are entitled to the latest iPhone, a BMW, eating out regularly, vacations, owning a home etc. There is a reason the term 30K millionaires has become so popular. While that term is used as a caricature, there is truth to it.

Originally Posted by asufan

I always figure 2.5X income is what one can afford in a mortgage. in this case that equates to a $150k mortgage which doesn't get much. it is certainly enough to live on, but we're talking management positions which in many places pay twice as much or more.

Someone earning 60K annually will bring home $3,600 after taxes (and this is with no deductions or write offs). You can certainly afford home in the Phoenix area on 30 year fixed on that income. A mortgage for a $250 K home would be between $1100-1200 per month with 5% down on a 30 year fixed. It is rare that management positions pay 120K or more. Earning 120K would put one in the top 10% of earners in the country. Meanwhile, earning 60K puts one in the top 30% of earners. And while some cities offer higher pay, you have to offset that by the cost of living. For example, 60K in Phoenix is equivalent to 109K in San Francisco. Speaking from personal experience, I know many managers in the Bay area who don't earn 100K.

[Maroon197]

I know many people in the Boston area who don't make anywhere near $60k and do fine. They don't live like kings, but they can still go out and save money month to month. I can't imagine the ridiculous amounts of discretionary spending you'd have to do to have trouble with that salary in Phoenix.

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by asufan

You had NICE house in the Phoenix area, funded retirement to the max and were able to eat out often on much less than $60k?

I had a decent home in Tempe near Rural and Broadway (still have it and rent it out), went out to Mill every other week, went out to music venues/clubs when the Tempe music scene was booming, my job had insurance and a 401k with partial matching, and I went on a couple of vacations annually.

Call center jobs usually have better benefits than restaurant work. They're great for young people and college students. I was a chef at the time.

So yes, I survived on a salary of less than 60k like a majority of the entire state, which has a median salary of 50k.

[Coop01]

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

There are lots of cheap areas of Scottsdale.

I saw this as a decent thing, more available work for those doing the Community College route. When I was younger, call centers were stable jobs that paid enough to survive. It's not like trying to live on a line cooks salary.

I'm sure they considered this when they decided to establish a presence here. For the most part I'd bet these are limited hour jobs. Anything over 20 hr/week will kick in costs for medical care and a myriad of other expenses for the employer. Additionally, the staffing will occur over three years.

I agree that this is a positive development for the area. I'm happy that they thought of keeping their business here rather than "offshoring" it. Relatively speaking, the US is considered a "safer" environment than a lot of other places in the world right now.

[westcoastbabe]

[quote=azriverfan.;44786877]"Westcoast babe isn't talking about surviving on a particular income but learning to live within one's means. She is referring to the the overall sense of entitlement people have with regard to spending money and affording a lifestyle that is well beyond their means. Our society has changed and everyone feels they are entitled to the latest iPhone, a BMW, eating out regularly, vacations, owning a home etc. There is a reason the term 30K millionaires has become so popular. While that term is used as a caricature, there is truth to it.



^^^^YES^^^^^

[asufan]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

"Management" is a fairly ambiguous term and you cannot make assumptions about pay without accounting for qualifications (education, skill sets) and duties. Most sales management positions do not require formal education or specific skill sets (accounting skills, programming C ++). And even experience can be fairly negotiable in these areas. For a call center/sales management position, I don't think that salary is unreasonable for the Phoenix area. Westcoast babe isn't talking about surviving on a particular income but learning to live within one's means. She is referring to the the overall sense of entitlement people have with regard to spending money and affording a lifestyle that is well beyond their means. Our society has changed and everyone feels they are entitled to the latest iPhone, a BMW, eating out regularly, vacations, owning a home etc. There is a reason the term 30K millionaires has become so popular. While that term is used as a caricature, there is truth to it.



Someone earning 60K annually will bring home $3,600 after taxes (and this is with no deductions or write offs). You can certainly afford home in the Phoenix area on 30 year fixed on that income. A mortgage for a $250 K home would be between $1100-1200 per month with 5% down on a 30 year fixed. It is rare that management positions pay 120K or more. Earning 120K would put one in the top 10% of earners in the country. Meanwhile, earning 60K puts one in the top 30% of earners. And while some cities offer higher pay, you have to offset that by the cost of living. For example, 60K in Phoenix is equivalent to 109K in San Francisco. Speaking from personal experience, I know many managers in the Bay area who don't earn 100K.

It seems to me like we are mostly in agreement. There are good high paying management positions, and there are bad. these mentioned seem to fall in the "not so good category". You seem to concede that one could only afford an average house here if there are no paycheck deductions (in other words, they don't make enough to max out the 401k and still be able to afford the house). That's pretty much the point I was making, I did not mention BMWs or any vehicles for that matter.

I also think being able to afford a $237k mortgage on $60k while funding retirement to the max or even 15% is not possible, although with lower rates I can see extending to 3X income or $180k mortgage. your mortgage payment example I think leaves out taxes and insurance also. Bottom line, with the MEDIAN home price being well over $200k currently, a $60k salary for management is not impressive, but one can certainly get by and have a nice life, yes.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by Jukesgrrl

More low-paying call center jobs. Who could afford to live in (or even near) Scottsdale on $37,000?

Again, Arizona can't have it both ways. Arizona wants to endorse extreme right wing conservative policies yet wants to recruit liberal highly educated people to move here and start companies. It doesn't work that way.