Woaahhh, culture shocked, Phoenix is much larger than i thought (Avondale: tax, medical)

[locolife]

Originally Posted by cjseliga

I agree, while technically the mountains in Phoenix are mountains, their prominences are not that spectacular, except for maybe Camelback. The Santa Catalina's have a prominence over 5,000 feet, nearly a mile higher than the valley below. I always wondered what the Phoenix metroplex would be like, if instead of South Mountain they had something like Mt. Lemmon and the Santa Catalina's in its place?

Then it would be like Tucson.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by BIG CATS

Id have to agree with the guy just a bit. Outside of Camelback and Piestewa, the "mountains" here in the city limits aren't really mountains, they are more hill-like for sure. Now the McDowells and Superstitions and White Tanks, etc... THOSE are mountains. The Phoenix Mountains should be renamed to the Phoenix Hills. Seriously. Drive along the 51 up by Northern Ave and tell me those are "mountains" (minus Piestewa Pk).

If Camelback and Piestawa are "real mountains" so is South Mountain which has a higher prominence then both of those, also you leave off the most prominent range in Phoenix, the Sierra Estrella.

The sierra range tops everything else in the valley for prominence at 3,215 feet. South Mountain beats out Camelback, Superstitions, McDowells and Piestawa which doesn't even make the top 100 list for prominence in Arizona.

The mountains we have here are just perfect if you ask me, we've got great access issues thanks to zero national forest existence and you can put together epic hikes/bike rides right in the middle and all around the country's 12th largest metro area. There are very few other large cities in the country where that can be accomplished.

[cjseliga]

Originally Posted by locolife

Then it would be like Tucson....

Not really, since the Phoenix metroplex has 4.5 million and Tucson has barely a million. It would be interesting though, if a Mt. Lemmon/Santa Catalina's existing where South Mountain was located, would only the super wealthy be able to afford to have houses on top of it. Could you imagine being in Phoenix city limits and above 8,000 ft.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by cjseliga

Not really, since the Phoenix metroplex has 4.5 million and Tucson has barely a million. It would be interesting though, if a Mt. Lemmon/Santa Catalina's existing where South Mountain was located, would only the super wealthy be able to afford to have houses on top of it. Could you imagine being in Phoenix city limits and above 8,000 ft.

The grass is not always greener though, checkout the inversion layer SLC gets every winter due to the presence of their tall mountains and they don't have nearly as many people as we do. And we'd probably have less land access and even larger hordes of vehicles endlessly trekking to the top to check out the cool view.

[Java Jolt]

Originally Posted by locolife

The grass is not always greener though, checkout the inversion layer SLC gets every winter due to the presence of their tall mountains and they don't have nearly as many people as we do. And we'd probably have less land access and even larger hordes of vehicles endlessly trekking to the top to check out the cool view.

I don't know about you but I'd be more concerned about people's lives instead of an inversion layer.

At least in Salt Lake City there aren't many stories about knuckleheads hiking in the middle of the summertime and getting heatstroke but it's all too common here.

Maybe frostbite is more of a factor there especially in the wintertime but I haven't even read about too many of those incidents, many of the mountain rescues take place right here in the heat of summer.

Seriously can't people find better things to do here than risk their lives hiking on a mountain trail?

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Java Jolt

I don't know about you but I'd be more concerned about people's lives instead of an inversion layer.

At least in Salt Lake City there aren't many stories about knuckleheads hiking in the middle of the summertime and getting heatstroke but it's all too common here.

Maybe frostbite is more of a factor there especially in the wintertime but I haven't even read about too many of those incidents, many of the mountain rescues take place right here in the heat of summer.

Seriously can't people find better things to do here than risk their lives hiking on a mountain trail?

People do die in avalanches every single winter up there... in a lot of cases it's because they choose to go out of bounds at resorts or in the back country. I don't know how the numbers stack up but in both cases you can make the same argument about unnecessary risk taking and mountain rescues.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by locolife

If Camelback and Piestawa are "real mountains" so is South Mountain which has a higher prominence then both of those, also you leave off the most prominent range in Phoenix, the Sierra Estrella.

The sierra range tops everything else in the valley for prominence at 3,215 feet. South Mountain beats out Camelback, Superstitions, McDowells and Piestawa which doesn't even make the top 100 list for prominence in Arizona.

The mountains we have here are just perfect if you ask me, we've got great access issues thanks to zero national forest existence and you can put together epic hikes/bike rides right in the middle and all around the country's 12th largest metro area. There are very few other large cities in the country where that can be accomplished.

Considering the Estrella's are on the GRIC and halfway between downtown and Gila Bend, I don't quite consider them part of the Metro

[locolife]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

Considering the Estrella's are on the GRIC and halfway between downtown and Gila Bend, I don't quite consider them part of the Metro

I see, so Estrella Mountain Ranch, PIR, the city of Avondale and the soon to be developed 202 don't count as part of Metro Phoenix? Good to know.

By the way,
Downtown Phoenix to PIR: 20 miles
Downtown Phoenix to Lost Dog Wash (the very southern tip of the McDowells): 17 miles

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by locolife

I see, so Estrella Mountain Ranch, PIR, the city of Avondale and the soon to be developed 202 don't count as part of Metro Phoenix? Good to know.

By the way,
Downtown Phoenix to PIR: 20 miles
Downtown Phoenix to Lost Dog Wash (the very southern tip of the McDowells): 17 miles

PIR is a different case, it is at the edge of the reservation and right next to Avondale, the Estrella's on the other hand are much further out of the way. I bet you consider the Lewis prison to be in the metro as well (the one on 85 between Buckeye and Gila Bend)

[BIG CATS]

Originally Posted by ElleTea

Really? We are going to start to argue over what a mountain is and what a hill is? Let's not and say we did.



By definition, the Phoenix Mountains are indeed mountains

moun·tain
ˈmount(ə)n/
noun
a large natural elevation of the earth's surface rising abruptly from the surrounding level; a large steep hill.

Most of the "mountains" in the Phoenix Mountains do NOT fit that description (read: NOT LARGE). Most of the "peaks" right along the 51 are maybe 100' tall at best. There are a few exceptions in that range, but even then, the elevation gain from base to summit on the biggest hills in that park is only a few hundred feet, minus Piestewa. We called those "hills" in Illinois. Are you going to classify the Driftless Region of the Midwest as "mountains" then? No. They're big hills. But wait! The definition of a mountain is a "large steep hill" according to your definition. So therefore IL has mountains!