Phoenix to decide $18M in tax break, incentives for downtown Fry's grocery store project (Glendale: apartments, lease)

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by locolife

At least a few rats give their asses because the voters continually support people who are for developing downtown.

You're view is too narrow, developing the core is crucial to competing for top jobs, talent and population growth. It's a few flakes of snow in a growing snowball that is starting to roll downhill now. And this type of subsidy is not unique to here.

The Boston Redevelopment Authority on Thursday approved a $7.8 million tax break for a massive development at the former Filene’s property, a deal officials said will help lure a new mix of stores and office tenants to downtown Boston.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/business...sdK/story.html

Study Details Cost of Tax Break for Luxury Manhattan Condo
One57 developer got $66 million in 421-a tax abatements in return for $5.9 million in affordable housing
Study Details Cost of Tax Break for Luxury Manhattan Condo - WSJ


Downtown Boulder affordable-housing project approved for tax credits
Downtown Boulder affordable-housing project approved for tax credits - BizWest

phoenix has done quite well for both jobs and population growth with a "dead" downtown, you can't argue with the facts. Asking other phoenicians to subsidize the lifestyles of the downtown "condo" set is wrong - if they can pay $1000 monthly condo dues, they can (and would) pay a couple hundred more to cover the actual costs to provide city services to those units. Taxes are already ridiculously low here, reducing the tax burden only allows the developer to suck up more pork. Say whatever you want about living downtown, but "the people" already voted with their dollars - by buying homes that weren't downtown.

Boston, manhattan & boulder are actually good reasons to argue against this type of welfare - they have too much tax money coming in to count, so they hand it out to their connected friends who are developers. If you honestly think Boston or Manhattan are cities that aren't "dense" enough, or that the free market wont support density without handouts, you're just wrong.

[pbenjamin]

Originally Posted by Zippyman

Say whatever you want about living downtown, but "the people" already voted with their dollars - by buying homes that weren't downtown.

The view from BFE must be dim enough that you can't see the residential building boom that is going on downtown and midtown.

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by pbenjamin

The view from BFE must be dim enough that you can't see the residential building boom that is going on downtown and midtown.

If there's a "building boom" in the area, then giving away the land and the tax revenue from it for 50 years really shouldn't be necessary, eh? And btw, if I lived in "BFE", I wouldn't care what the city of Phoenix does with it's tax money, living in the city means some of my tax dollars are being used for this project.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by Zippyman

If there's a "building boom" in the area, then giving away the land and the tax revenue from it for 50 years really shouldn't be necessary, eh? And btw, if I lived in "BFE", I wouldn't care what the city of Phoenix does with it's tax money, living in the city means some of my tax dollars are being used for this project.

Land prices have skyrocketed downtown to the point where it would be cheaper for a low margin business like a grocery store to set up in a different part of the area with lower land prices, that is why a tax subsidy is needed. Only high margin businesses like in tech and finance can weather those higher starting costs subsidy free

[nala1908]

You guys do understand the tax subsidy is for the office tower and residential units right? The cost of setting up a grocery in the bottom level retail is not and should not be subsidised

[Hschlick84]

Tax subsidies screams crony capitalism in my book.

[kell490]

I went to the new frys market place opened near me the prices are high even higher then when they had been in their older store down the street. Walmart beats their prices on most identical items by 50% I rarely go to Fry's. I go to Sprouts for my produce and meat.

[Bondurant]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

Land prices have skyrocketed downtown to the point where it would be cheaper for a low margin business like a grocery store to set up in a different part of the area with lower land prices, that is why a tax subsidy is needed. Only high margin businesses like in tech and finance can weather those higher starting costs subsidy free

Do you actually believe that Fry's, owned by Kroger, cannot afford retail space in downtown Phoenix?

[stevek64]

ok, looks like the $18M in giveaways is a done deal.

Now will the taxpayers also get a share in the profits for their investment? Wouldn't that seem fair? And no, just the convenience of a store in a neighborhood for people in that region doesn't count as ROI.

Though I'm all for discounted food items for taxpayers who footed the bill to make this all happen that private industry apparently didn't see it a worthwhile endeavor to build this without the taxpayers wallet. That would be fine too.

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by stevek64

ok, looks like the $18M in giveaways is a done deal.

Now will the taxpayers also get a share in the profits for their investment? Wouldn't that seem fair? And no, just the convenience of a store in a neighborhood for people in that region doesn't count as ROI.

Though I'm all for discounted food items for taxpayers who footed the bill to make this all happen that private industry apparently didn't see it a worthwhile endeavor to build this without the taxpayers wallet. That would be fine too.

This isn't about the store!