Is the Phoenix Valley creating multiple urban centers? (Mesa, Glendale: condos, crime rate)

[singlegirlinaz]

I’m noticing something lately that never existed before in the Valley of the sun and that is more areas making the transition from suburban to urban. Used to be the other way around.

When I moved here in 1994 Downtown Phoenix was probably the only place in the Valley that was anything like an urban center but even that was lame and kind of run down.

Now the Downtown area has a little more life but I noticed other parts of the Valley are getting more dense and urban like the Biltmore Fashion Park area, and Downtown Scottsdale, Tempe, and Chandler.

Most places that used to be rural or sparsely built back in the 90's are now developed and becoming urbanized. Back then Scottsdale was still hanging on to kind of a cowboy theme but that's mostly gone now.

I’m from the LA area originally and I always found it fascinating how many dense urban centers LA city alone has besides Downtown like Koreatown, Hollywood, Noho, Century City, Westwood, and Van Nuys. Phoenix always seemed boring to me compared to LA but less so lately.

Is Phoenix starting to follow the path of LA with urbanization? I hope so.

[observer53]

The urbanization of the suburbs (Scottsdale, Tempe, Chandler) is of their own city government's doing, it has nothing to do with what Phoenix is doing. Remember, most of those areas around LA you name are separate municipalities, too. They have their own plans in terms of development, and execute them with nothing to do with LA proper.


The Biltmore area has had a lot of commercial/office development for decades, it's not really new. Same for midtown Phoenix.`

[AZJoeD]

Urban centers are where people want to be today. 25 or 30 years ago every city or town wanted a mega-mall. People went to the mall to shop, eat, ice skate, exercise or hangout. People don't go to malls anymore. They want to dine in their neighborhood, hang out at a local pub, shop at specialty stores (or online).

Most cities and towns recognized the trend and invested money in their downtown centers to match what people are doing. It actually is a good thing for small business.

By the way this is not unique to AZ, almost anywhere you travel you will find a similar environment.

[sexxxcblac]

The OP seems very knowledgeable of the area....information overload if you will.

[phenomenon]

Be careful...I recently cheered on the ongoing urbanization of the Phoenix metro on this forum and got attacked by posters who wanted the city to resemble a Wild West theme park with horses and trucks.

[Western Urbanite]

As an Angelino, I recently visited Phoenix for the first time and was very pleasantly surprised. I expected an ugly, sprawling suburb, and found a beautiful, vibrant, dense city. I only spent a few days, but wished I could spend more. I mostly got around on public transit, and was stunned at the urbanity of Downtown, Midtown, Camelback/Biltmore, Scottsdale, and Tempe (those were the places I went.) It really did remind me quite a bit of LA 15-20 years ago. I particularly think Phoenix's mountain geography is an asset, and a highlight for me was climbing Camelback and seeing the surprisingly green valley below me. The one thing I think Phoenix should do is expand its canals like crazy and make them an icon of the city. A little water lined with parks and condos does wonders for a desert climate.

[exit2lef]

The Phoenix Metropolitan Area, like most around the country, became polycentric during the late 20th Century as job sprawl followed residential sprawl to the suburbs. Even within Phoenix city limits, planners pursued a strategy of numerous "urban villages" with their own cores. The trend became so pronounced that a visitor to the area 20 years ago would have found Downtown Phoenix seemingly lifeless and would have been told to travel to Mill Avenue or Old Town Scottsdale for entertainment. While those two areas, along with several others mentioned in this thread, are still vibrant, Downtown Phoenix has finally reached a point where it is beginning to approach its appropriate role as the region's major (but not sole) urban center.

[ScottsdaleMark]

Good posts in this thread!

Urbanite, Scottsdale has done a bit of this in the downtown/Old Town area, they call it the "Waterfront." The only issue is the canals can smell sometimes but either the city or the agencies that manage the canals do things to manage the smell, from what I recall. I believe they release certain types of fish into the canals that eat and basically clean up the canals.

In a lot of Phoenix, there is no frontage on the canals ... it's fenced-in backyards that back up to the canals. But I do think eventually these canals do hold a lot of development potential for green space or public space. As of now, a lot of it has trails but is undeveloped. So good point that there is a lot of potential there.

On the plus side, cities have long done a better job of turning washes into usable space, with the most shining example always seeming to be the Scottsdale Greenbelt, although there are plenty of other nice examples throughout the metro.

[Pink Jazz]

While Chandler has improved its downtown area, what the city lacks compared to its peers is public transportation; the city ranks sixth in total ridership behind Phoenix, Tempe, Mesa, Scottsdale, and Glendale. I would love to have a light rail line along Chandler Boulevard/Williams Field/Power that can connect to Chandler Fashion Center, SanTan Village, ASU Poly, and Superstition Springs Center (anyone remember my Pink Line idea)? West of Chandler Fashion Center, the Pink Line can also either go further west to Ahwatukee or go north along Rural/Scottsdale to connect to Scottsdale (I have actually debated which is better; the latter was originally intended to be my Brown Line).

[KurtAZ]

Hmm..I don't know about that Pink Jazz...I would like to see if there is any correlation to a rise in crime rate before and after the light rail is put into an area. You are talking about making it easier to access some of the lowest crime areas of the Valley and while in a Utopian society where everyone gets along and there is no need that may work...with access comes potential problems. Not that I think a criminals preferred mode of transportation is the light rail...I think it has some bearing.

As far as the OPs original statement/question...absolutely and it has been going on for a while. Many of the places she mentions have been becoming more urbanized over the past 20 years and continue to do so. I don't think that urbanization is going to extend too much past the downtown areas of each city through...and there is enough infill land to do "things" with. The one thing that will stop us from becoming another LA is that we don't have a central geographic attraction that people want to be close to, i.e. the ocean. Economically? Sure, there are business centers that are going to drive growth...DT Phoenix, Scottsdale Airpark, Tempe Town Lake, the Price Corridor, etc. but any type of "urbanization" requires people willing to live in a higher density area and that would take a major shift in how people want to live.

Maybe we are moving that way...maybe people want to live stacked on top of each other in multi story buildings...and that is fine and those people will drive the urbanization of the city cores. Phoenix is not land-locked so will never become as dense as some think it should be, nor do we have unlimited resources to support that many people.