This sucks! Pension costs for Fire and Police Soaring, Paralyzing Phoenix Budget (low crime, landlord)

[Potential_Landlord]

Ouch. I had no idea it was this bad. who made those stupid pension deals, particularly with fire and police? - Now they are an anchor on our budget for the next 10 years. You want to be mayor/city manager? -Then your job is to take any revenue you can get in the next ten years and then shove it to the public pension fund. There is not a lot left for anything else.

From the AZ Central article:

Soaring pension costs still crippling Phoenix budget

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by Potential_Landlord

Ouch. I had no idea it was this bad. who made those stupid pension deals, particularly with fire and police? - Now they are an anchor on our budget for the next 10 years. You want to be mayor/city manager? -Then your job is to take any revenue you can get in the next ten years and then shove it to the public pension fund. There is not a lot left for anything else.

From the AZ Central article:

Soaring pension costs still crippling Phoenix budget

Both the city and the state pay well under market-rate for new employee labor, (and often way too much for "experienced" employees).. the trade-off is the pensions and the benefits. Take away the pensions & the benefits & they won't be able to hire or retain anyone. There's no quick fix for this that doesn't have long-term implications. As it is, the "average" new state employee is 20% underpaid, according to the state's hr department - with no plan at all in place to correct that, as the economy improves the best & brightest will leave & departments will be staffed with those that the private sector doesn't want. Classic "penny wise, pound foolish" behavior.

[American Expat]

The problem is universal across virtually all governmental organizations with pensions....they are only sustainable if the revenues keep climbing which fortunately Phoenix is still having. I don't think the pensions look out of line with most other cities.

[Ponderosa]

First off, it's the public safety pensions, not all of them that are the main problem. Cops and fire fighters don't work enough years to cover the decades they spend in retirement. ALso, they get sweet deals where they contribute little or nothing out of their own paychecks.

[cjseliga]

This is nothing new and has been happening for a long time and effecting cities and towns, big and small, all across this country from the 5th largest city of Phoenix with 1.5 million people to my hometown of Scranton, PA with 75,000 people.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

First off, it's the public safety pensions, not all of them that are the main problem. Cops and fire fighters don't work enough years to cover the decades they spend in retirement. ALso, they get sweet deals where they contribute little or nothing out of their own paychecks.

But they take MUCH greater physical risk than pretty much any other profession. Without some type of sweet reward, no one would do it

[cjseliga]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

But they take MUCH greater physical risk than pretty much any other profession. Without some type of sweet reward, no one would do it

That's why, if you want to go into these types of professions, the key is to find a nice medium-sized city with a low COL and a relatively low crime rate and few fires, then you're set!

[Potential_Landlord]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

But they take MUCH greater physical risk than pretty much any other profession. Without some type of sweet reward, no one would do it

There's 9 private sector jobs with higher fatality rate before police and fire isn't even in there at all. Where's the pension crisis for fishers and lumberjacks? If anyone then they deserve it.



fishers and related fishing workers: 116.0
logging workers: 91.9
aircraft pilots and flight engineers: 70.6
farmers and ranchers: 41.4
mining machine operators: 38.7
roofers: 32.4
refuse and recyclable material collectors: 29.8
driver/sales workers and truck drivers: 21.8
industrial machinery installation, repair and maintenance workers: 20.3, and
police and sheriff’s patrol officers: 18.0.

[Potential_Landlord]

Originally Posted by Zippyman

Both the city and the state pay well under market-rate for new employee labor, (and often way too much for "experienced" employees).. the trade-off is the pensions and the benefits. Take away the pensions & the benefits & they won't be able to hire or retain anyone. There's no quick fix for this that doesn't have long-term implications. As it is, the "average" new state employee is 20% underpaid, according to the state's hr department - with no plan at all in place to correct that, as the economy improves the best & brightest will leave & departments will be staffed with those that the private sector doesn't want. Classic "penny wise, pound foolish" behavior.

I think the issue is mostly public safety workers. State & city employee pension costs go up too but minimal compared to police & fire.

[RenW]

The pensions I saw didn't seem out of line at all. The highest pensions are going to those who worked approx. 30+ years for the city of Phoenix. I especially see the pensions for Fire Fighters and Police being appropriate. These are the people who risk and sometimes loose their lives for the people of Phoenix.

Originally Posted by From Article

The average pension for a retired Phoenix employee is about $32,200 per year for civilians and $63,900 for public-safety workers.

As someone else mentioned, often government employees trade lower salaries for better benefits. In the case of Firefighters and Police, they should be well compensated including retirement for the work and risk they do for the city. I can't imagine that this debate is good for present morale either.

Originally Posted by From Article

"Pensions are definitely a problem, but to lay this at the feet of police and fire is a ruse," DiCiccio wrote in a statement. "It is the fault of the managers and the politicians who allowed this to happen by refusing to prioritize city functions and stop reckless spending."

Retirement payout is predictable. It is evident that the Phoenix retirement plan has been underfunded for a long time to cause this "crisis". The answer here is not slashing the budgets for needed services and functions. Unfortunately part of the answer is likely raised taxes. If that had been done years ago with proper financial planning the impact would have been minimal. Now it is likely to hurt more. Noone likes to be the ones who raise taxes, but money doesn't grow on palm trees.