Arizona Republic article "Phoenix is the nation's 5th largest — but is it a 'real' city?" (cars, town)

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by marinezac

Most of which are vacation sites in Mexico and flights for snow birds from Canada to come. I think the above poster was referencing flights that people involved in business would use. We have three international flights that are not to Mexico or Canada, that is not great for the 5th largest city in the country. Also shows we are not attracting much international tourism outside of Canada,

100% correct. When I think of international flights, the overseas destinations come to mind more so than places like Calgary, Vancouver, Mexico City, or Mazatlan. Sky Harbor has a few flights to European cities, but you're correct that it's simply not enough for as large as we are. We need to face the facts that if we're going to keep growing and becoming even larger, we can't keep plodding along at a slow pace. We have to be competitive with other cities/metros our size.

[KurtAZ]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

100% correct. When I think of international flights, the overseas destinations come to mind more so than places like Calgary, Vancouver, Mexico City, or Mazatlan. Sky Harbor has a few flights to European cities, but you're correct that it's simply not enough for as large as we are. We need to face the facts that if we're going to keep growing and becoming even larger, we can't keep plodding along at a slow pace. We have to be competitive with other cities/metros our size.

So what is your plan?

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by KurtAZ

So what is your plan?

Shouldn't be just my plan as one person can't do it alone. Obviously, the Phoenix area needs to be attracting more business & tourism in order to gain overseas flights. When smaller cities like Denver & Vegas have flights to certain European & Asian destinations which Sky Harbor lacks, that should be a signal that we need to be stepping up our game.

https://theclare.com/the-advantages-...in-a-big-city/
The above website pertains mainly to Chicago, but it outlines some of the top advantages for living in any large city. The list includes: convenience of public transit, a wide array of social events, top tier restaurants & shopping, high quality medical care, endless entertainment options, and sports. Phoenix has all these to a certain extent, but it could be doing better on some things, especially entertainment options.

Some other items which make a city attractive to business include: resilience of the economy to downturns, skill level of the workforce, and growth rate of existing businesses. As recent history has shown, Phoenix still has a lot of room to improve in these areas. While we shouldn't be copying other cities, we need to look at the more successful ones around the nation & world, and ask ourselves: what are they doing right that we aren't? After that, get busy and make the changes for the better.

[KurtAZ]

Well...if there were demand for direct flights and it was feasible for a specific airline to do so, don't you think they would do it?

As an aside, we were in Down Town last night...first time in a while just walking around Arizona Center area. Nice to see the area grow and get cleaned up. My wife commented that we need to get down there more often.

[dtyfygiu]

^Definitely getting a Manhattan/Downtown Chicago feel.

[Maroon197]

Originally Posted by dtyfygiu

^Definitely getting a Manhattan/Downtown Chicago feel.

Try taking 5 photos of downtown chicago or Manhattan where you can see only 3 pedestrians in all of the photos combined. Or where you can only see one restaurant/public facing business in all of the photos combined. All the flattering photo angles in the world can’t make up for the lack of street life. Roosevelt row can be fairly active, but in a way that reminds me of someplace more like richmond, not Manhattan lol.

[KurtAZ]

Honestly we were trying to NOT get people in the shots. There were plenty of folks around, lots of college students since we were just south of ASU Downtown and UArizona/NAU Biosciences building. Pizzeria Blanco was packed in Heritage Square. The restaurants in Arizona Center were pretty much full. We didn't go up to Roosevelt Row...but it was beautiful weather to be out and about.

I don't know about Chicago/Manhattan but the buildings are definitely shorter and less dense. Walking around NYC you just get awed by the size of the buildings.

Anyway...you can throw shade all you want at the density or lack of foot traffic. Nothing was happening at the Phoenix Convention Center or Herberger Theatre so it was probably more empty if there were events going on.

[Maroon197]

Originally Posted by KurtAZ

Honestly we were trying to NOT get people in the shots. There were plenty of folks around, lots of college students since we were just south of ASU Downtown and UArizona/NAU Biosciences building. Pizzeria Blanco was packed in Heritage Square. The restaurants in Arizona Center were pretty much full. We didn't go up to Roosevelt Row...but it was beautiful weather to be out and about.

I don't know about Chicago/Manhattan but the buildings are definitely shorter and less dense. Walking around NYC you just get awed by the size of the buildings.

Anyway...you can throw shade all you want at the density or lack of foot traffic. Nothing was happening at the Phoenix Convention Center or Herberger Theatre so it was probably more empty if there were events going on.

I’m not trying to suggest no one ever goes to those places. But, there are still many times where I can look up and down the street I’m standing on in downtown and not see a single other pedestrian. And this is when it’s 70 degrees outside. I walked three blocks in Roosevelt row the other day on a sunny 68 degree sunday afternoon and saw 2 other people during that walk. Actual World class cities simply don’t ever feel like ghost towns during their peak nice weather season. Phoenix still has a long way to go to catch up to a place like Austin, let alone New York or chicago.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by Maroon197

Try taking 5 photos of downtown chicago or Manhattan where you can see only 3 pedestrians in all of the photos combined. Or where you can only see one restaurant/public facing business in all of the photos combined. All the flattering photo angles in the world can’t make up for the lack of street life. Roosevelt row can be fairly active, but in a way that reminds me of someplace more like richmond, not Manhattan lol.

Three pedestrians is three times what there would have been 20 years ago. But, yes, tumbleweeds still outnumber people on the sleepy streets of downtown Phoenix after working hours. The real action is just a few blocks over, though, at St. Vincent de Paul. That place is the most popular eatery downtown by far.

[dtyfygiu]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Three pedestrians is three times what there would have been 20 years ago. But, yes, tumbleweeds still outnumber people on the sleepy streets of downtown Phoenix after working hours. The real action is just a few blocks over, though, at St. Vincent de Paul. That place is the most popular eatery downtown by far.

Roosevelt Row is definetly the Michigan ave/Times Square of Phoenix. The amount of foot traffic is insane. Anybody who says otherwise simply hates Phoenix and the fact its growing into world class.