Arizona Republic article "Phoenix is the nation's 5th largest — but is it a 'real' city?" (home, live)

[Tall Traveler]

Originally Posted by Maroon197

I wish people would stop listening to Fox News fear porn and just go actually visit chicago for themselves. I’ve never felt unsafe or afraid there, nor has it ever struck me as “deteriorated.” It’s a beautiful, vibrant, and fun city with an endless list of cool things to check out. Granted I’ve never visited the bad parts of town, but why would I? I don’t intentionally visit the bad parts of Phoenix either.

Paris has massive slums, the dumpiest subway imaginable, graffiti and crumbling buildings in the heart of the tourist districts, and it’s still considered by many to be the greatest city in the world. The anti-chicago fixation from right wing media is straight up bizarre.

Just looked it up and while Chicago's murder rate falls below well St. Louis, it's still 3 times the rate per capita than Phoenix. I visited the area of Chicago that's not likely to get you shot and it was really nice.

As long as Chicago continues to host so many large corporations, they'll be fine and will find enough people that can tolerate that brutal winter to keep it vibrant. If the corporations ever leave, it'll be just like Detroit.

[henrychen]

Phoenix is the fifth most populated city in the U.S. Sounds like a real city to me. Deal with it. I don't know why people have to hate. Be glad you aren't Philadelphia.

[Maroon197]

Originally Posted by henrychen

Phoenix is the fifth most populated city in the U.S. Sounds like a real city to me. Deal with it. I don't know why people have to hate. Be glad you aren't Philadelphia.

For context, Boston and San Francisco are about 130 square miles if you combined them together. Phoenix by itself is well over 500 square miles. Pure population numbers isn’t what the original article was discussing though. This is a qualitative discussion, not quantitative.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Maroon197

This post reads like a coping mechanism. Not only have I lived in world class cities, but I routinely utilized all the amenities I outlined above. The beautiful parks were full of locals, tourists, young, old, rich, and poor. That’s what made them great civic spaces. It may be hard to believe given the environment in Phoenix, but there are actually cities all over the world where people venture out to interact with and enjoy their community. Where there is more to daily life than driving from your suburban garage to the nearest strip mall and then back to your private suburban garage. The new cost of living in Phoenix no longer aligns with the kind of city it is. We are fast approaching the point where people will start to ask, why am I paying coastal prices to live in a beige suburban inferno?

You really can't side-step the data on if Phoenix is worth it, market demand has not slowed down despite increasing pricing so.... people see value in living here even if you personally don't. Masses continue to flood into new apartments and condos in downtown Phoenix and Tempe. All of the new dining, entertainment, venus, speak easys, bars etc... downtown Phoenix. A city is what you make of it, if you choose to live in a suburban area of Phoenix and hangout at strip malls that's on you, and your choice if it makes you happy. You'll find that in Chicago or New York or Boston too....

Not sure what you spend your free time doing but I'm in downtown nearly every weekend these days, it's surpassed Old Town as the primary entertainment/cultural/activity center in the valley. Tempe is going off as well. Maybe try moving? It sounds like you're living in the Phoenix of 1985 or something, times have changed.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Maroon197

For context, Boston and San Francisco are about 130 square miles if you combined them together. Phoenix by itself is well over 500 square miles. Pure population numbers isn’t what the original article was discussing though. This is a qualitative discussion, not quantitative.

So what? A place looks different, a city that grew up in a different era and you can't wrap your head around it? It's not like Boston and SF don't have 100's of square miles of sprawl in the other cities around them...

[henrychen]

Originally Posted by locolife

So what? A place looks different, a city that grew up in a different era and you can't wrap your head around it? It's not like Boston and SF don't have 100's of square miles of sprawl in the other cities around them...

I agree. Phoenix is a 'new' city. If someone wants density, move where there's density.

[Maroon197]

Originally Posted by locolife

So what? A place looks different, a city that grew up in a different era and you can't wrap your head around it? It's not like Boston and SF don't have 100's of square miles of sprawl in the other cities around them...

You seem to be struggling to understand the topic. The article was asking if Phoenix is becoming a “real” city, which means density, walkability, strong public transportation, world class cultural institutions, direct international flights etc. Phoenix has basically none of those things, as it’s a massive sprawling suburban area. It has nothing to do with “looking different.” It’s about whether or not it’s a high quality, functional city or still just a massive unsustainable suburban mess. Unfortunately, despite some progress, It’s still very much the latter.

[Slater]

Unfortunately, the more concrete and steel they pile on the more intense the "heat island" effect.

[henrychen]

Originally Posted by Maroon197

You seem to be struggling to understand the topic. The article was asking if Phoenix is becoming a “real” city, which means density, walkability, strong public transportation, world class cultural institutions, direct international flights etc. Phoenix has basically none of those things, as it’s a massive sprawling suburban area. It has nothing to do with “looking different.” It’s about whether or not it’s a high quality, functional city or still just a massive unsustainable suburban mess. Unfortunately, despite some progress, It’s still very much the latter.

Good God ...

[roadwarrior101]

Originally Posted by dtyfygiu

Well I'm going by the city. It's the 5th largest city in the country and booming. Anybody who says Phoenix isn't surpassing most cities is delusional. Our suburbs are world class, the city neighborhoods are insanely good, our downtown is starting to look like Austin/Philly/LA, and the highways are getting widened.

It's definitely surpassing most cities. I never said otherwise. However, to ignore the metropolitan area is not providing an accurate assessment. If we were just going by city proper population (vs metro area), we'd see the following (within a given state):

-San Diego would be larger than San Francisco
-Jacksonville would be larger than Miami
-San Antonio would be larger than Dallas

Cities depend upon the surrounding communities to make an economy tick. This includes people commuting from one community to another, businesses transporting between communities, etc.

This isn't a knock against Phoenix at all. However, it is still a mid-tier metropolitan area and the city's amenities reflect this.