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If I'm reading between the lines correctly, you are strapped. If so, you are not alone and I understand why you feel like a "slave" because you are one. The secret is to economic freedom is to live way under your means for years while working smarter (1st) and harder to pay things off. You need to bank money to get ahead. i.e. if you take out car loans (when you start out which is a necessary evil), study cost of ownership (depreciation curves; reliability, gas mileage etc) and minimize what you spend.
For instance, when we built our 1st larger home at age 28, we stayed at our MIL's while I worked two jobs at 100 hours a week (40 hours plus a consulting gig), I sold both of my paid off newer cars ($25K) and bought two reliable cars for $2500 to further reduce my loan. When interest rates fell, and fell, we refinanced by buying the rate UP (zero costs yet the interest rate went down) 5 or more times. We turned off the air in the summer (MN), bought garage sale items for our kids cloths or clearance racks. I could go on and on and on and on. In other words, we bought things from other people that were losing a lot of money on the items, etc. Hence, we lived way below my means (other than a nice new home that I sub contracted to save even more).
With discipline and sticking to the plan, all of a sudden you have something I call "Scr_w You money" and no one owns you. For me, that happened at age 35ish (I'm 52 now). But I was a saver and refused to succumb to keeping up with the Jones. Make no mistake, it was HARD because marketing is a powerful tool. It's a struggle not want things when we are marketed to so intensely. But just because a pie is on the menu and in front of my face, I don't have to eat it. That's how I look at personal debt. MOST people go with the flow and get themselves all loaned-up. Just look at the statistics of what people have in savings (57% of Americans have less than $1K in savings). But they have that new iPhone, have a lease payment on their shinny new car, go on fantastic vacations, take out a loan for that new pool etc. Meanwhile I have 2 used cars, have a three year phone, stay at modest hotels, and still study every way of saving a buck. I could stroke a check for pretty much whatever I want right now but I won't because now time tosave for retirement time. I've been debt free for years and I feel free.
So it's a state of mind and I'm always saying no to luxuries that won't make me happy; rather "Scr_w You" $'s make me happy. But I'm STILL constantly have to say no to temptations. So just because someone can pay cash for something doesn't mean they can "afford it". I see people around me making $400K and blowing nearly all of it on "things". At the end of the day, all that stuff only amounts to a better garage sale.
So get off your treadmill. Hopefully you want to go it but I wonder about your current mindset... Because you said that you wanted to "...work a month a year and pay for everything and then just putter around and do free lance." Well, that isn't conducive to shedding the shackles. IMHO, you just said your new ideal situation is to live a poverty lifestyle. But you already jumped on the debt treadmill, so obviously you just want the pain to go away; I get that. Also, stop reading polluted ideas from people who blame everyone else. It's like blaming McDonald's for people who are fat.
Please don't shoot the messenger. I'm trying to help. You need to re-think things top to bottom. Your approach isn't working. Considering 57% of the Americans have less than a Grand in savings, you are not alone and that makes me sad. People are where they are for a reason.
I am not strapped but for any american with a single family house payment thats not in detroit the amounts are objectivly non-trivial and typically represent a massive portion of a person or families take home pay, that is objectivly a problem (unless you are amung the roughtly top 3-5%).
This creates a sitaution where people cant afford to be entrepenuers, they cant afford to be without a traditional pay check for any signficant length of time while building out a buisness because servicing the mortgage is so burdensome (or rent).
Key asset classes that people need (ie housing) are grossly price inflated while wages stagnate or fall, this will lead to a colapse of the USA becuase once people start realizing that its impossible for them to comfortably and reasonably buy a house and start a family then thats where you see these alternative life styles creeping in. Cities and states that are hostile to it will start to suffer as the boomers can no longer wipe their own rear ends and the young people are gone as they were priced out of the market.
I know more and more people who are looking at moving to Mexico or else where in order to get off the treadmill because otherwise there is no way to do it. I am doing pretty good, the only debt is our house and in the area where we both have (for me had) good jobs there is not really any vacant buildable land so we had to scour for a house for over a year (non HOA burdened, etc etc). We are in a fortunate situation but I have empathy for what I see going on because the struggle should not be as extreme as it is. When people are pissing themselves over $20/hr and homes are 350k thats an issue, sure you can do it as you obviously proved, sweating yourself to bed in 2nd world living conditions, thats fine if its big money and VERY temporary (I mean I would go work in Saudi for a year for 350k net, but those days are over, I graduated just a few years too late) but most people dont want to live like they are in a POW camp for 20 years to barely pay for a roof over their heads .... hence we have this tiny home movement or living out of busses/RV's etc because whats left?
And while we are not suffering (we have no debt other than our house and we had over 20% down and bought "cheap") we cant just decide to take a 2-3 year sebatical and then just leisurly look for new jobs, the house payment demands that we work, all of the "avacado toast" that boomers like to poo poo is noise in the budget compared to the massive hosue payment.
Sure its a good idea to buy at garage sales for kids that will grow out of clothes in 6 months etc but thats not really addressing the out of control costs of housing (NICE housing) not some one room crap hole in the ghetto. The media and boomers like to try sweeping this fact under the rug because everything is riding on boomers being able to cash out their house to retire OR take out some kind of reverse equity loan. Municipalities are fighting this tiny home movement because it completely usurps the bid wars for their medocre homes so they can go retire in guatamala. If everyone is living in tiny homes or similar who is going to participate in the bid war for a house that is listed for 5 times what it is really worth, who is going to pay the over bearing property taxes as the boomers die off and no one is willing to pay what the city thinks these houses are worth?
Sure its a good idea to buy at garage sales for kids that will grow out of clothes in 6 months etc but thats not really addressing the out of control costs of housing (NICE housing) not some one room crap hole in the ghetto. The media and boomers like to try sweeping this fact under the rug because everything is riding on boomers being able to cash out their house to retire OR take out some kind of reverse equity loan. Municipalities are fighting this tiny home movement because it completely usurps the bid wars for their medocre homes so they can go retire in guatamala. If everyone is living in tiny homes or similar who is going to participate in the bid war for a house that is listed for 5 times what it is really worth, who is going to pay the over bearing property taxes as the boomers die off and no one is willing to pay what the city thinks these houses are worth?
Re: out of control housing. A big part of the over-priced housing problem is people buy "payments". So when the cost of borrowing is manipulated to be artificially low, people are able to over pay for a house. Because at the end of the day, too many people are going to get themselves all loaned-up and this pushes housing up to an artificial amount. People buy "payments" on their car loans too and "payments" on their new pool etc. Let's raise the interest rate to 10% tomorrow exclusively on housing and see what happens. I always refused to buy "payments" and designed my life around not commuting so I could spend less for more. It's worked for me.
Re: wages. In reality, we are in a world economy. If whatever you do for a living competes in a global economy, then you are going to feel the wage pressures. So if you are an airline mechanic, planes can land and get fixed in Vietnam. Therefore without knowin the market, I assume wage pressures for mechanics are coming (if they have not already occurred). If you write code, your work can be emailed and you are officially competing against someone in India or __________. Therefore, someone who is willing to work a lot less will apply pressure to your wages. Or if someone can buy the same widget online for less, then Kohl's, Sears, and 200 other brick and mortar business will have their arses handed to them. I've learned that lesson a long time ago and taught that to my now frown up kids. Therefore I have very high confidence that my 23 year old (still has 7 years left in school) and 26 year old will soon be in the 1-3% wage earners. Both should outperform my lifetime income with ease. They picked careers that will be tough to outsource.
So my free advice to anyone who is struggling; you probably picked the wrong discipline for your vocation. The lesson that I've learned is to get closer to the money stream. That is because being close to the $$'s is where you can influence it and you can become more valuable to the organization. Also, careers that are close to higher margin widgets and services will make more $$'s than skinny margins. There are exceptions to the rule. But generally, that's what happens. If you can work for yourself, then you can control your own destiny easier. That's why I'm self employed, sell high margin widgets and by definition, I am close to the money. I've had to reinvent myself 3 different times because the career changed for the worse. As I said before, I've lectured all of this to my kids as they were growing up. If you think about it for a while, it's common sense. But I will agree that if you are missing this basic knowledge and hope your boss or society will take care of you, this (the USA) can be a tough place to make ends meet.
So here is how we are different. I would be blaming myself for not being a better competitor and not have any other excuses. Because if you look around you, there are some people kicking butt your age and educational level. Do you think they were all simply lucky?
If you were my son, I'd tell you to stop reading about how the odds are stacked against you. Because if you believe what you posted, you just told me that you have already given up. Sorry for the lecture. I do wish you the very best!!
Last edited by MN-Born-n-Raised; 11-19-2017 at 05:15 AM..
There aren't RV parks for anyone under 55 in Phoenix. Like I said we want to live on a residential property so we would try to connect to the main house's septic and plumbing.
Yes there are. Look at family friendly parks and you will see more.
Do you know how to connect to a house's sewer/septic? You need check with the building department. Your best bet is to be outside the city limits and in a non HOA neighborhood.
Re: out of control housing. A big part of the over-priced housing problem is people buy "payments". So when the cost of borrowing is manipulated to be artificially low, people are able to over pay for a house. Because at the end of the day, too many people are going to get themselves all loaned-up and this pushes housing up to an artificial amount. People buy "payments" on their car loans too and "payments" on their new pool etc. Let's raise the interest rate to 10% tomorrow exclusively on housing and see what happens. I always refused to buy "payments" and designed my life around not commuting so I could spend less for more. It's worked for me.
Re: wages. In reality, we are in a world economy. If whatever you do for a living competes in a global economy, then you are going to feel the wage pressures. So if you are an airline mechanic, planes can land and get fixed in Vietnam. Therefore without knowin the market, I assume wage pressures for mechanics are coming (if they have not already occurred). If you write code, your work can be emailed and you are officially competing against someone in India or __________. Therefore, someone who is willing to work a lot less will apply pressure to your wages. Or if someone can buy the same widget online for less, then Kohl's, Sears, and 200 other brick and mortar business will have their arses handed to them. I've learned that lesson a long time ago and taught that to my now frown up kids. Therefore I have very high confidence that my 23 year old (still has 7 years left in school) and 26 year old will soon be in the 1-3% wage earners. Both should outperform my lifetime income with ease. They picked careers that will be tough to outsource.
So my free advice to anyone who is struggling; you probably picked the wrong discipline for your vocation. The lesson that I've learned is to get closer to the money stream. That is because being close to the $$'s is where you can influence it and you can become more valuable to the organization. Also, careers that are close to higher margin widgets and services will make more $$'s than skinny margins. There are exceptions to the rule. But generally, that's what happens. If you can work for yourself, then you can control your own destiny easier. That's why I'm self employed, sell high margin widgets and by definition, I am close to the money. I've had to reinvent myself 3 different times because the career changed for the worse. As I said before, I've lectured all of this to my kids as they were growing up. If you think about it for a while, it's common sense. But I will agree that if you are missing this basic knowledge and hope your boss or society will take care of you, this (the USA) can be a tough place to make ends meet.
So here is how we are different. I would be blaming myself for not being a better competitor and not have any other excuses. Because if you look around you, there are some people kicking butt your age and educational level. Do you think they were all simply lucky?
If you were my son, I'd tell you to stop reading about how the odds are stacked against you. Because if you believe what you posted, you just told me that you have already given up. Sorry for the lecture. I do wish you the very best!!
If pittsflyer was my son, I'd remind him that the current situation is why the Founding Fathers gave us the 2nd amendment.
You DO realize the other countires in our "world economy" have national protectionist measures much more than ours has, riiiiiiiiiight?
Re: out of control housing. A big part of the over-priced housing problem is people buy "payments". So when the cost of borrowing is manipulated to be artificially low, people are able to over pay for a house. Because at the end of the day, too many people are going to get themselves all loaned-up and this pushes housing up to an artificial amount. People buy "payments" on their car loans too and "payments" on their new pool etc. Let's raise the interest rate to 10% tomorrow exclusively on housing and see what happens. I always refused to buy "payments" and designed my life around not commuting so I could spend less for more. It's worked for me.
Re: wages. In reality, we are in a world economy. If whatever you do for a living competes in a global economy, then you are going to feel the wage pressures. So if you are an airline mechanic, planes can land and get fixed in Vietnam. Therefore without knowin the market, I assume wage pressures for mechanics are coming (if they have not already occurred). If you write code, your work can be emailed and you are officially competing against someone in India or __________. Therefore, someone who is willing to work a lot less will apply pressure to your wages. Or if someone can buy the same widget online for less, then Kohl's, Sears, and 200 other brick and mortar business will have their arses handed to them. I've learned that lesson a long time ago and taught that to my now frown up kids. Therefore I have very high confidence that my 23 year old (still has 7 years left in school) and 26 year old will soon be in the 1-3% wage earners. Both should outperform my lifetime income with ease. They picked careers that will be tough to outsource.
So my free advice to anyone who is struggling; you probably picked the wrong discipline for your vocation. The lesson that I've learned is to get closer to the money stream. That is because being close to the $$'s is where you can influence it and you can become more valuable to the organization. Also, careers that are close to higher margin widgets and services will make more $$'s than skinny margins. There are exceptions to the rule. But generally, that's what happens. If you can work for yourself, then you can control your own destiny easier. That's why I'm self employed, sell high margin widgets and by definition, I am close to the money. I've had to reinvent myself 3 different times because the career changed for the worse. As I said before, I've lectured all of this to my kids as they were growing up. If you think about it for a while, it's common sense. But I will agree that if you are missing this basic knowledge and hope your boss or society will take care of you, this (the USA) can be a tough place to make ends meet.
So here is how we are different. I would be blaming myself for not being a better competitor and not have any other excuses. Because if you look around you, there are some people kicking butt your age and educational level. Do you think they were all simply lucky?
If you were my son, I'd tell you to stop reading about how the odds are stacked against you. Because if you believe what you posted, you just told me that you have already given up. Sorry for the lecture. I do wish you the very best!!
I am guessing your kids are going to be doctors, my family now goes to Mexico for medical care, so while medical care cant be insourced people can outsource themselves for said care which is proliferating. My passion is weapons development .....
With that said, I'm a white guy and I'm not worried about someone stealing my job. Someone with lower skills cannot take it.
The issue is our protectionist policies are still weak in an absolute sense and we don't meet economic warfare with a shooting war. If a nation is waging economic warfare then maybe their factories need to go away via cruise missles. If enough people of like mind move to the same place due to 3rd world wage pressures don't think it cant happen.
If pittsflyer was my son, I'd remind him that the current situation is why the Founding Fathers gave us the 2nd amendment.
You DO realize the other countires in our "world economy" have national protectionist measures much more than ours has, riiiiiiiiiight?
Yep cruise missles and hell fire drones are our best assets against economic warfare. Opps Jonny CEO's factory in China just got blown apart with a cruise missle oh man that sucks and took a half billion dollar hit.
As someone who has owned motorhomes and travel trailers for over 30 years and currently spends 80+ days annually living in one I think I have a fair bit of knowledge on the subject.
I completely understand the motive but being unorthodox and rebellious is overrated and gets expensive. I employ millennials and get weary of their "smartest one in the room" antics. Many wear their rebellion like a badge of honor and insist on marching to the beat of a different drummer (even though they look just like all of their friends!) at the expense of others. (However, there are some shining stars whose brilliance gives me hope.)
I say go for it.
As long as they abide by city codes, laws, and don't trample on the liberties of others. I am all for thinking outside the box in practical terms... but it's obvious that this pair hasn't done that.
Thanks for the response.
You make good points.
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If so, you are not alone and I understand why you feel like a "slave" because you are one
. The secret is to economic freedom is to live way under your means for years while working smarter (1st) and harder to pay things off. You need to bank money to get ahead. i.e. if you take out car loans (when you start out which is a necessary evil), study cost of ownership (depreciation curves; reliability, gas mileage etc) and minimize what you spend. 
Hence, we lived way below my means (other than a nice new home that I sub contracted to save even more).
But they have that new iPhone, have a lease payment on their shinny new car, go on fantastic vacations, take out a loan for that new pool etc. Meanwhile I have 2 used cars, have a three year phone, stay at modest hotels, and still study every way of saving a buck. I could stroke a check for pretty much whatever I want right now but I won't because now time tosave for retirement time. I've been debt free for years and I feel free.
You need to re-think things top to bottom. Your approach isn't working. Considering 57% of the Americans have less than a Grand in savings, you are not alone and that makes me sad. People are where they are for a reason.
