HELP!!!! Need info re: fighting a Photo Radar Speeding Ticket (Phoenix: insurance, attorney)

[teachr+3]

I am trying to educate myself on the AZ laws re: photo radar citations. Primarily, I need details re: what constitutes "improper service." I believe my understanding from my research thusfar is this: if you get a photo radar ticket in the mail, you legally don't have to do ANYTHING... you can throw it in the trash because it has not, legally, been served to you according to the process set forth in the law. From there, the state has 120 day in which to serve you through a process server, but that is where my question comes in. According to attorney Susan Kayler, if you HAVE been served by a process server, you CAN get your license suspended if you don't respond, EVEN IF THE PROCESS SERVER DIDN'T SERVE YOU THE PAPERWORK PROPERLY! According to an interview she did on Ch. 12, and her website: Photo Radar Tickets Self-Help Site the law requires that a process server personally deliver papers to a spouse, but not a friend or other individual in the house. YET, she goes on to also say that, even if you have been served inappropriately, you need to now respond because your license can be suspended. I'm confused. I would think that an improper serving would equate to another example of not following the legal statues, and so the ticket could continue to be ignored....???

[Patrick754]

As someone who has been down this road, tried to dodge the process server etc., my advice would be to just pay the ticket/take the class and put it behind you.

[RCR]

This subject has been beat to death many times. Just do a search and you will find all the info you want. I am with Patrick, if you are eligible for the class, meaning you haven't taken it in the last 2 years, take it. You can put this behind you in four hours which is far easier than looking over your shoulder for 4 months.

[motormaker]

Maybe this will help:

Photo Radar questions

[sablebaby]

I think the real question should be, were you speeding? If you were, you were caught, pay the ticket! Take some responsibility for your actions.

[teachr+3]

The issue here is the fact that photo radar and the very process it entails is ILLEGAL, by the government's own standards! Most people don't know that every city that uses it (Mesa, Scottsdale, etc.) has a contract with the outside company that makes the cameras (such as Lockheed Martin). These contracts promise a minimum of tickets per intersection where a camera has been installed. Steps have been taken to ensure that the minimum will be met, such as shortening the amount of time that a yellow light stays on, which limits the amount of time that a car can get through, which increases the number of people who get tickets for red-light running. (Watch the following video:
News 5 Expose: "Camera Cops" (http://www.photoblocker.com/www/vidpop_rlc.html - broken link) )

It is also against the law's own verbage in that the law in Arizona is clear that personal service is required. The court holds, "To serve a civil traffic complaint, the State must comply with ARS 28-1073 which requires service by delivering a copy of the uniform traffic complaint citation to the person charged with the violation." Therefore, mailing a citation in the mail is illegal. Additionally, the law requires that the individual be identified. How can a camera operated by a computer identify anyone....??? In addition, there are laws re: how a process server is supposed to serve paperwork... but they know that the people don't have a leg to stand on in arguing photo radar, so they break the law in how they serve photo radar tickets (because they don't get paid until they can say the paperwork was served). The government breaks the law, and they pay process servers who break the law, all to ream the tax payers through a process that leaves them defenseless.

Our founding father, Ben Franklin, said it best when he said, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

To the blogger who asked whether or not I was breaking the law and told me to accept responsibility. If and when I have broken the law, I accept responsibility. That is not the case in this instance. There was clearly something wrong with the camera. I drive with my cruise control set, and yet I've read again and again that a judge will not accept that as an argument. He trusts the camera and not you. The very premise of photo radar removes the state's responsibility to "prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you were breaking the law" ~ in this case, "driving at a speed that is unreasonable and imprudent." The individual is not listened to or respected, the camera is... but you have NO leg to stand on.

The cameras are supposed to be calibrated every so often to ensure that they're working properly, but if they aren't, who would know??? Why should it be the public's reponsibility to try and prove that the state is doing what they're supposed to be doing when the very process of what they're doing is illegal....??? But, they KNOW this is something that most people feel helpless agains, and that most people therefore just pay the fine (or attend the class, which is also just another way of putting money in the state's pocket).... but the whole process goes against the law from the get-go.

[SOON2BNSURPRISE]

Not sure about Arizona but in Orange County California something like 70% of the photo tickets are not paid. No one goes after them because of the cost. (I have never had one so not sure how it works.) Do they pursue it in the Phoenix area, or if you disregard it can you get away with it? Not advocating anything here, just wondering.

[ITChick]

Originally Posted by teachr+3

The issue here is the fact that photo radar and the very process it entails is ILLEGAL, by the government's own standards! Most people don't know that every city that uses it (Mesa, Scottsdale, etc.) has a contract with the outside company that makes the cameras (such as Lockheed Martin). These contracts promise a minimum of tickets per intersection where a camera has been installed. Steps have been taken to ensure that the minimum will be met, such as shortening the amount of time that a yellow light stays on, which limits the amount of time that a car can get through, which increases the number of people who get tickets for red-light running. (Watch the following video:
News 5 Expose: "Camera Cops" (http://www.photoblocker.com/www/vidpop_rlc.html - broken link) )

Interesting link. I've heard of this complaint before, and I agree with you that it's not fair in the way it's being done. On the other hand, do you really want to worry everytime you drive that if a cop stops you your car might be impounded and license suspended if caught?

If it were me, I would pay the ticket to at least be able to have peace of mind. And try to not run any Yellow lights in the future.

[wit-nit]

You can throw away the ticket, disregard it all you want...but your license will be suspended. without your knowledge. and your insurance will not be valid. and if you get stopped personally by an officer or involved in an accident, you're gonna be in deep expensive doo doo.
Sablebaby is right, fess up and pay up.

[teachr+3]

Trust me, everyone. Your license WILL NOT be suspended if you throw away a civil traffic violation that comes in the mail. It is not until it comes to you via a process server that it becomes an issue. Check-out this site: Photo Radar Tickets Self-Help Site