08-16-2018, 11:13 AM
Location: Valley of the Sun
2,623 posts, read
2,349,025 times
Reputation: 2824
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ponderosa
The pool guy who did my acid wash this winter says Pentair is the best and Hayward is junk. I don't know why he has that opinion other than maybe his personal experience with problems.
This 2003 is a Hayward but I keep hearing that Pentair is the one to go with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KurtAZ
Hayward Tristar VS 950
Our original single speed gave out (finally) and part of the installation cost was the concrete pad under the pump. It had deteriorated pretty much to the point where you could see the re bar in the cement. I have been pretty happy with this one, 4 speed variable and moves the water much more efficiently than our old single speed.
My rebar is showing too. I'll ask my pool guy about that when he comes over.
My concern with the variable pumps is how the in floor cleaning system will work on those lower speeds? Many don't like the in floor cleaning systems but ours functions very well. It gets most of the dirt and debris without me having to do a thing all year. No extra vacuum needed, very little sweeping dirt and rarely skimming the surface.
08-16-2018, 12:29 PM
Location: Victory Mansions, Airstrip One
6,783 posts, read
5,093,007 times
Reputation: 9239
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ponderosa
I'm going to redo my pool gear this winter and am going to use a regular pump. A VS pump would take years to break even on a time of day with demand plan running the pump only in the off peak periods. A pool guy won't put in a regular one now as they are required by law in AZ to replace with VS pumps.
Last time mine failed I took the motor in and had it rebuilt for less than $100. Should be good for a few years.
What's the expected life of a VS pump? I have a hard time imagining the electricity savings will offset the cost of the upgrade.
08-16-2018, 01:00 PM
Location: Hard aground in the Sonoran Desert
4,866 posts, read
11,245,230 times
Reputation: 7128
I can't get the yearly usage graph for 2017 on my aps account now but when I installed the VS pump in February 2017 my electricity usage was SIGNIFICANTLY less each month after that.
08-16-2018, 01:09 PM
Location: Sonoran Desert
39,109 posts, read
51,340,810 times
Reputation: 28356
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hikernut
Last time mine failed I took the motor in and had it rebuilt for less than $100. Should be good for a few years.
If you have an installer do it they give you a three year warranty. If you do it yourself, it's like 60 days. Those electronic sitting out in the sun day after day would give me pause.
08-16-2018, 01:21 PM
Location: Sonoran Desert
39,109 posts, read
51,340,810 times
Reputation: 28356
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LBTRS
I can't get the yearly usage graph for 2017 on my aps account now but when I installed the VS pump in February 2017 my electricity usage was SIGNIFICANTLY less each month after that.
I won't dispute your savings, but in my rate plan the charge is 5 cents a Kwh during offpeak. I run the pump 6 hours a day, so it costs me 30 cents. I'd have to run the VS pump at high pretty much the same amount of time for cleaning. Even if it were more efficient at high speed, how much could I save? 10 cents, 20 cents a day. A new high efficiency non-VS costs 300-500 less than an VS and that is DIY without warranty. Double it for professional install. It would take me many years beyond the life of the pump to break even.
Now if one runs the pump a lot more or during peak periods, then the savings go up. I noticed Pentair does their saving calc presuming .16 per KWh. Nobody on a time of day pays that. And think about this, with APS there are only 5 hours a day that are on peak - 25 a week.
08-16-2018, 02:23 PM
2,775 posts, read
5,738,035 times
Reputation: 5104
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ponderosa
You can buy a pump online for around $700. So maybe they charge 500 bucks to put one in. That's ridiculous considering all it takes is a hacksaw, a couple fittings and some glue. But that is how it goes with pool services and supplies.
Yeah, that's about what I thought.
08-16-2018, 02:56 PM
Location: Hard aground in the Sonoran Desert
4,866 posts, read
11,245,230 times
Reputation: 7128
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ponderosa
I won't dispute your savings, but in my rate plan the charge is 5 cents a Kwh during offpeak. I run the pump 6 hours a day, so it costs me 30 cents. I'd have to run the VS pump at high pretty much the same amount of time for cleaning. Even if it were more efficient at high speed, how much could I save? 10 cents, 20 cents a day. A new high efficiency non-VS costs 300-500 less than an VS and that is DIY without warranty. Double it for professional install. It would take me many years beyond the life of the pump to break even.
I believe your calculations are off...you can't just multiply the cost per kWh times the length of time you run the pump. You would have to know the kWh your pump uses during the time it is running.
08-16-2018, 03:08 PM
Location: Sonoran Desert
39,109 posts, read
51,340,810 times
Reputation: 28356
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LBTRS
I believe your calculations are off...you can't just multiply the cost per kWh times the length of time you run the pump. You would have to know the kWh your pump uses during the time it is running.
You're right. It's way too hot to go out and look at the plate, so ballparking it I have a 1.5 HP pump. 1 HP is roughly 748 watts so it uses around 1.1 KWh per hour. That's a bit more, but it is not going to change the basic calculus. I just don't see how a pricey VS pump would pencil out with rates of only .05 per KWh. It is likely an entirely different result for people who are on a straight rate.
That's not to say they do not have some attractive features. You can gently circulate during the day for peanuts and a pool with a little ripple looks nicer than one just stagnant. That might also help with dust storms as the dust could be held in suspension and filtered instead of settling out and then have to be sucked up or blown around again for cleaning. Last but not least, these new pumps are really quiet - even on the high settings.
Unless one is a DIYer who wants to forego an extended warranty, then its got to be a VS pump installed by your friendly pool man.
08-16-2018, 03:28 PM
Location: Valley of the Sun
2,623 posts, read
2,349,025 times
Reputation: 2824
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hikernut
Last time mine failed I took the motor in and had it rebuilt for less than $100. Should be good for a few years.
My pool guys estimated it would save us about $300 per year in energy compared to our 2003 Hayward 1.5 HP pump.
ROI would be about year 5 then.
08-16-2018, 04:07 PM
Location: Victory Mansions, Airstrip One
6,783 posts, read
5,093,007 times
Reputation: 9239
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ponderosa
You're right. It's way too hot to go out and look at the plate, so ballparking it I have a 1.5 HP pump. 1 HP is roughly 748 watts so it uses around 1.1 KWh per hour.
I've read that these motors are roughly 50% efficient, and that a 1.5hp takes about 2kW. I haven't tried to confirm this, though.
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Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)
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You're right. It's way too hot to go out and look at the plate, so ballparking it I have a 1.5 HP pump. 1 HP is roughly 748 watts so it uses around 1.1 KWh per hour. That's a bit more, but it is not going to change the basic calculus. I just don't see how a pricey VS pump would pencil out with rates of only .05 per KWh. It is likely an entirely different result for people who are on a straight rate. 
