Metro light rail ridership declined in 2018 (Phoenix, Mesa: real estate, apartments, hotels)

[cjseliga]

Originally Posted by yukon

I can't believe the capitol building wasn't the first leg of the rail. And the current station is about a mile away, not overly convenient.

I think that was mainly due to the location. I feel the Metro always wanted to go up Central (Midtown) and along Washington/Jefferson. They would have had to go up 15th or 17th if they wanted to include the Capitol Complex in the initial leg. I mean, if only the Capitol was in the middle of the downtown, Central and Washington, then it would have been perfect!

[orlando-calrissian]

The biggest problems with the light rail currently are speed and lack of connectivity. It's largely useless to 90% of the Valley because it doesn't go where they need it to go plus it has an abysmal schedule. Public transit is still a small afterthought behind cars.

It's never gonna be the primary mode of transit in Phoenix but if 30% of the Valley ended up riding it, that would be a win. I would hope that it could become a first option for those in central and possibly South Phoenix.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by orlando-calrissian

plus it has an abysmal schedule

Valley Metro light rail runs its last trains at 11 PM Sunday through Thursday and at 2 AM Friday and Saturday. Everyday, service starts around 4 AM. Those are more generous hours of service than rail transit systems in many of Phoenix's peer cities, and they even surpass the hours of operation in some larger metro areas with heavy rail (e.g. Washington D.C.). With that in mind, I'm wondering if you could clarify what part of the schedule is "abysmal"?

[Valley Native]

There was a report late last year that the Phoenix City Council voted to permanently delay the light rail extension to PV Mall, and free up more money for street maintenance. I think this was a good move. Light rail should be mostly concentrated in the more urban areas. The PV Mall area is too suburban and car centric for light rail to work. Besides, there are a lot of streets in Phoenix which are in dire need of repaving and upgrades, which the city seems to have neglected lately.

[Thomasaz]

Light rail is necessary for a city to become a real city. A lot of companies look for characteristics like good public transportation, developing downtown, and general things that would appeal to young workers. A grid locked city that emphasizes driving to suburbs and exurbs is not appealing. Look at the development and tell me that it hasn't improve Phoenix, Tempe, and Mesa. I wish the cities had passed the original transportation plan which was better than the light rail. Light rail takes up too much space and is slow, so hopefully the considering including fast routes that run along highways.

[rynetwo]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

I mostly agree here. Expanding light rail should take place in the areas where demand is highest, which would be mainly in the centralized areas, and perhaps south Phoenix (despite the recent protests from NIMBYs there). A line to the Capitol, and more lines on major streets like 7th Street, 7th Avenue, McDowell, Thomas, Indian School, and east Camelback would probably work. I can't see the reasoning behind putting more lines in suburban areas where the demand isn't sufficient enough. Also, installing a light rail line in the median on I10 in the west Valley makes little sense ... even though something similar already is in existence in the L.A. area. That I10 median desperately needs upgrades, but I would much prefer more traffic lanes, specifically bus or HOT lanes instead of rail.



There is no evidence at all that light rail has spurred development. The revitalization in downtown Phoenix would have occurred anyway, thanks largely to more demand for inward & upward development. I wouldn't have admitted this a decade ago, but ASU Downtown has been one of the projects which has created a lot of this demand. Light rail has definitely helped in this regard, but it wasn't the main reason for why central Phoenix has finally come to life compared to 20+ years ago.

I can't believe you included midtown in your example. Aside from light rail on Central Avenue, midtown hasn't changed much at all in over 25 years. The office towers bring in the business people on weekdays, but the whole area still goes dead after 7 PM. Abandoned buildings & vacant lots still can be found in the midtown area. West Camelback Road & 19th Avenue where the light rail line has existed for over a decade still looks the same with very little in the way of new development or activity. Same goes for the Washington/Jefferson corridor: still a very industrial & sketchy area for the most part. And have you been on Apache Blvd. in Mesa where the light rail line is? No change at all ... still plenty of vacant lots!

This! San Antonio has no light rail and is now looking into trackless rail and BRT. Anyway point is, our downtown has exploded with development. Phoenix and San Antonio are following sunbelt trends.

[cjseliga]

Originally Posted by Thomasaz

Light rail takes up too much space and is slow, so hopefully the considering including fast routes that run along highways.

Running lines along/in the middle of highways and interstates is a double edged sword, yes there are less lights and stop and go movement, but it also means you need more park and ride garages/lots.

Looking back, should they have maybe elevated the starter line over most of the intersections, then came back to ground level in between for the stations, maybe, but it would have added to the cost and made it like a roller coaster!

[Obadno]

1. Lyft/Uber ride sharing

Just as cheap and more convenient

2. Gas has become cheap again

Ridership across the country has dropped on every system

[observer53]

Originally Posted by Obadno

1. Lyft/Uber ride sharing

Just as cheap and more convenient

2. Gas has become cheap again

Ridership across the country has dropped on every system

Uber/Lyft are not cheaper than the rail, unless you are only going a very short distance.


There is a definite correlation with gas prices and mass transit ridership, including buses. I've seen it firsthand.

[Burning Madolf]

I know a place we might be able to pick up some "high speed" rail equipment on the cheap.