Phoenix sports & entertainment compared to other western metros (Tucson: hotel, casino)

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by walker1962

Inglewood, CA is not really suburban. Its just a city around which Los Angeles annexed land. Its closer to downtown L.A. than several other Professional sports venues in other cities. I'm in the DFW market. The Texas Rangers and Cowboys play not in Dallas or Dallas county but adjacent Tarrant County. But from a metro perspective, those two facilities are more centrally located. They have good highway/road access but unlike for the Dallas Stars and Dallas Mavericks, who play in Dallas, there is no rail service. The DFW area has an abundance of facilities for sporting events, including a brand new 14,000 seat arena in Fort Worth. When some markets get so large, sometimes some municipalities are more willing to provide some funding than others.

Inglewood would be considered an inner ring suburb ... and as vast as the L.A. metroplex is, it is a pretty centralized location with good access to LAX & major freeways. I'll agree about the Dallas area: the teams and their respective venues seems to work well there. The Cowboys are an internationally recognized NFL franchise, and they have a huge fan base. Seriously, who hasn't heard of the Cowboys or seen their cheerleaders?

Some will argue that the Phoenix sports market is relatively new compared to many other cities, and that's why we're not as recognized or why we don't have noteworthy teams, but I call b.s. on that. The Suns used to be the envy of the NBA, especially at one point in the 1970s, and again in the 1990s. The DBacks were the World Series champs just 3 years after they formed as a team, and have won the NL West title a few times since. There are a lot of factors as to why Phoenix pro sports are on many people's ignore list. Changing the team names to "Arizona this or that" hasn't done anything to lure in more fans, improve the management, or score more wins. All it has really done is cause more of an identity problem for Phoenix.

Originally Posted by thinkalot

Have you been around Westgate lately?

I have absolutely no reason to go to Westgate, mainly due to the location ... however, I've seen Google street views of the area from various time periods, including 2019. It looks pretty much the same as it did 5 years ago ... and 10 years ago! What's your point?

[Ponderosa]

Most of the state hates Phoenix and any mention of the name sends shivers down their spines. No one wants to admit they live in Phoenix as in "I live in Tempe, or Gilbert or ..." even though few outside of the metro ever heard of those places. Maybe Phoenix should pay the Bidwills for the naming rights.

[thinkalot]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Inglewood would be considered an inner ring suburb ... and as vast as the L.A. metroplex is, it is a pretty centralized location with good access to LAX & major freeways. I'll agree about the Dallas area: the teams and their respective venues seems to work well there. The Cowboys are an internationally recognized NFL franchise, and they have a huge fan base. Seriously, who hasn't heard of the Cowboys or seen their cheerleaders?

Some will argue that the Phoenix sports market is relatively new compared to many other cities, and that's why we're not as recognized or why we don't have noteworthy teams, but I call b.s. on that. The Suns used to be the envy of the NBA, especially at one point in the 1970s, and again in the 1990s. The DBacks were the World Series champs just 3 years after they formed as a team, and have won the NL West title a few times since. There are a lot of factors as to why Phoenix pro sports are on many people's ignore list. Changing the team names to "Arizona this or that" hasn't done anything to lure in more fans, improve the management, or score more wins. All it has really done is cause more of an identity problem for Phoenix.



I have absolutely no reason to go to Westgate, mainly due to the location ... however, I've seen Google street views of the area from various time periods, including 2019. It looks pretty much the same as it did 5 years ago ... and 10 years ago! What's your point?

You do realize it has been sold. A lot different since Parsons bought it.

New construction throughout the area. Hundreds of apartments built in the last year. Every time I go there I see something new going up. New hotels, hospital, casino, etc. A lot of building between Olive and Maryland.

A stadium that has sold out since it was built cannot be in the wrong location.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Seriously, what's your point to even post a brief, but senseless and ignorant response? Move on to another thread or forum if you can't see the point, which is pretty obvious.



There's more to it than the location, and if you read any of the original post, you would understand this. Obviously, Las Vegas and L.A. have it mastered when it comes to pro sports, while Phoenix behaves like an oversized hick town. The cost of this boondoggle is outrageous ... but apparently you're not concerned that rental car taxes (among the highest in the nation) are subsidizing this massive failure, as well as Glendale being on the hook for millions of dollars which they're shoving onto taxpayers. To your other comment: there was no "MASSIVE recession" in 2006. You have the year completely incorrect.

I HATE that taxes are paid for the stadium. Stadiums should sink or swim on their own. Personally, I go to one pro game every 3 years and watch a pro sports game on TV a couple of times a year; tops. The stadium was opened in 2006. Soon, Phoenix was in a massive recession. So while other citizens in Minneapolis worried about not getting a raise, a lot of people in Phoenix worried about surviving. The whole area came to a screeching halt. It was an absolute TERRIBLE time to open up a billion-dollar venture.

Glendale wasn't financially responsible. We agree. And I suspect it would have done better in the East Valley so we also agree. What I'm saying is they could not have picked a worse time. And the location has a lot less to do with the massive blow to their concept. Rather the economy was horrible and some bad seasons (and publicity) with the Coyotes. You cannot take a single successful start season of the Knights and extrapolate that they are doing well because of the location. The team was in the Stanley Cup.

Westgate assumed growth around the area and a semi-healthy economy. It's taken 5+ years after the great recession to end for many people in PHX in order to get their legs back. My point is IF the economy cruised along as they modeled, their bet would have looked a lot better on paper. So the #1 reason for the failure was the recession, not the location. If you picked the location in 2006, I predict they still would have lost their arse; just less $$. As always, SOMEONE is going to make money on the Westgate project. Like happens all too often, not always the 1st guy. And in this case, the people who live in Glendale will be paying for a lot of it.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Bondurant

No one is confused as to which metro area the Cardinals, Coyotes and Diamonbacks play in.

Evidentially some people have an OCD. I'm with you, I'd say it would statistically have ZERO impact on peoples watching habits (PHX versus AZ). Often, states with multiple teams (several large population areas) have to call it by the city name.

I think we should change the state's name to Phoenix. Then the people with OCD can have it both ways. Like the New York Yankees who play in NYC and live in the state of New York. Problem solved. And taking it a step further, have Phoenix (the city) annex the Westgate area sliver. See, problem solved. By doing that, people will flock to watch hockey in the desert; just like the Knights. lol

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

I have absolutely no reason to go to Westgate, mainly due to the location ... however, I've seen Google street views of the area from various time periods, including 2019. It looks pretty much the same as it did 5 years ago ... and 10 years ago! What's your point?

Often, Google Maps can be three years old. I don't mean to bust your chops but looking at Google maps to make your argument is like me saying I went on vacation to Japan a couple of hours ago. Because I was on Google maps and it was a lovely trip.

The area has built up a lot mainly because the economy is extremely healthy.

As Pondorosa once pointed out, as you go farther out from the center, you add a massive amount of land. Meaning, developing another mile from Westgate versus Tempe amounts to many more times the area. Or putting it another way, you probably will see cotton fields in 10 years even when another 100,000 people are added to the town of Glendale.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

I have absolutely no reason to go to Westgate, mainly due to the location ... however, I've seen Google street views of the area from various time periods, including 2019. It looks pretty much the same as it did 5 years ago ... and 10 years ago! What's your point?

I go out there with some frequency mainly for yotes and cards games, the changes have been very noticeable in the last 5-10 years. New hotels, Dave and Busters is there now, Top Golf directly across the 101, the massive Desert Diamond Casino is nearly completely directly to the north. Hell, 10 years ago the Tanger Outlets weren't even there.


With Parsons at the helm for the last year they've added quite a few new amenities as well, ax throwing, escape room, piano bar and I can't remember when the comedy club opened.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by locolife

I go out there with some frequency mainly for yotes and cards games, the changes have been very noticeable in the last 5-10 years. New hotels, Dave and Busters is there now, Top Golf directly across the 101, the massive Desert Diamond Casino is nearly completely directly to the north. Hell, 10 years ago the Tanger Outlets weren't even there.


With Parsons at the helm for the last year they've added quite a few new amenities as well, ax throwing, escape room, piano bar and I can't remember when the comedy club opened.

I will have to check that out. I thought the Piano bar closed (Shout House). They did in San Diago and MPLS too. Is it now called Key Piano Bar? Same location?

If you want to see incredibly high concentration smokers (that cannot afford to gamble), I highly recommend Desert Diamond Casino. I was in that casino for 2 minutes. I grabbed a free soda and bolted before my clothes stunk even more.

[wase4711]

the endless hate for anything in the west valley, by many members here is pretty amusing, since many of them haven't been in the west valley in ages, and don't realize or want to admit to the explosive growth in the west valley, and how much better it is that it was even 5 years ago.

that's ok, makes it a little less crowded for those of us who know what's actually going on out here..

[doolish1]

Are the coyotes going to keep playing in Glendale or are they moving to another location?