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Too late for that. Plenty of lazy, low income, unambitious people have already piled into the Phoenix area from CA, Midwest, and other parts of the country because they thought it would be sunny, warm, and cheap living. I'm actually looking forward to more goal oriented, business minded, higher income types moving here for important things like jobs & money (which is what a city this size should be about).
To each his own, but I'd rather be in cities like Phoenix, Houston, and Austin than Chicago, New York, or Boston for lots of reasons. The large Texas cities have high growth rates, relatively low crime rates, and plenty of good job opportunities for those who apply themselves. I'd rather see Phoenix emulate Houston instead of L.A./southern CA ... and especially Chicago!
So in other words the "right kind" of people are welcome.
I guess you just need to hope that you're always going to be the right kind...
Too late for that. Plenty of lazy, low income, unambitious people have already piled into the Phoenix area from CA, Midwest, and other parts of the country because they thought it would be sunny, warm, and cheap living. I'm actually looking forward to more goal oriented, business minded, higher income types moving here for important things like jobs & money (which is what a city this size should be about).
To each his own, but I'd rather be in cities like Phoenix, Houston, and Austin than Chicago, New York, or Boston for lots of reasons. The large Texas cities have high growth rates, relatively low crime rates, and plenty of good job opportunities for those who apply themselves. I'd rather see Phoenix emulate Houston instead of L.A./southern CA ... and especially Chicago!
I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone unironically state that a city should be “more like Houston.”
I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone unironically state that a city should be “more like Houston.”
Why not? It's home to 24 Fortune 500 companies, so there's a higher number of upper tier jobs, and it has a majestic skyline as a result. At the same time, while it's not a cheap place to live, it's not as expensive as the west or east coasts. In fact, the average home price in Houston is less than Phoenix. The crime rate is also lower than Chicago, which in many ways is comparable in population to Houston (and could easily overtake Chicago in population rank over the next decade or so). I don't really want Phoenix to be a carbon copy of any other city, but I'd rather it be more like Houston than Chicago.
Why not? It's home to 24 Fortune 500 companies, so there's a higher number of upper tier jobs, and it has a majestic skyline as a result. At the same time, while it's not a cheap place to live, it's not as expensive as the west or east coasts. In fact, the average home price in Houston is less than Phoenix. The crime rate is also lower than Chicago, which in many ways is comparable in population to Houston (and could easily overtake Chicago in population rank over the next decade or so). I don't really want Phoenix to be a carbon copy of any other city, but I'd rather it be more like Houston than Chicago.
Houston is a garbage city. "Majestic skyline" lmaoo. 85% of those fortune 500 companies are energy/oil related which is going away in a couple decades. upper tier jobs? The pay in Houston is sh*t. The minimum wage in Chicago is $15 vs $7.25 in Houston, plus you dont need a car in Chicago so that saves you even more money. Oh and about that crime rate, Houston leads the nation so far, yikess....
Houston is an oversized suburb. The weather is trash, the downtown is trash, the skyline is mediocre as hell, the beaches nearby are garbage, one of the most obese cities in the country, everything is spread out, etc. Lol @ comparing Houston to a world class city like Chicago. And Chicago grew per this recent census, it aint passing chicago anytime soon.
Phoenix is pretty trash too, but the scenery is nice atleast. Nice beautiful mountains. And Scottsdale is cool.
Why not? It's home to 24 Fortune 500 companies, so there's a higher number of upper tier jobs, and it has a majestic skyline as a result. At the same time, while it's not a cheap place to live, it's not as expensive as the west or east coasts. In fact, the average home price in Houston is less than Phoenix. The crime rate is also lower than Chicago, which in many ways is comparable in population to Houston (and could easily overtake Chicago in population rank over the next decade or so). I don't really want Phoenix to be a carbon copy of any other city, but I'd rather it be more like Houston than Chicago.
Chicago metro area population is 50% larger than Houston’s. So not even close in comparison. Using only city population is disingenuous.
Houston lacks culture, history, zoning, and class.
Chicago metro area population is 50% larger than Houston’s. So not even close in comparison. Using only city population is disingenuous.
Houston lacks culture, history, zoning, and class.
Oh yes, and Chicago has soooo much class with all the violent crime. Phoenix & Houston (and all other large cities for that matter) have crime problems too, but Chicago seems to be the leader. I'm sure there are some positives about the Chicago metro area, but the fact is that it's a slow growth region compared to places like Houston, Dallas, Phoenix, Atlanta, etc. All these metros grew at double digit percentages over the last decade, while Chicago remained nearly stagnant at 1.66%. Obviously, there are valid reasons for this.
Oh yes, and Chicago has soooo much class with all the violent crime. Phoenix & Houston (and all other large cities for that matter) have crime problems too, but Chicago seems to be the leader. I'm sure there are some positives about the Chicago metro area, but the fact is that it's a slow growth region compared to places like Houston, Dallas, Phoenix, Atlanta, etc. All these metros grew at double digit percentages over the last decade, while Chicago remained nearly stagnant at 1.66%. Obviously, there are valid reasons for this.
Just read all the updates here for the first time in a while.
Lately it seems like every time I get onto the 101 or 202 there's a good chance a crash has occurred. People on Nextdoor were saying these are the most reckless drivers they've ever seen. When I change lanes, I feel like you have to perform hyperspace calculations as they say in Star Wars. You have to watch multiple lanes behind you and to your side because people drive so fast here and constantly change lanes.
In regards to the mountains, they look great on a post card. Going into them is not a great idea for at least half the year here because the heat can sneak up on you and there's not a lot of shade.
There are a lot of great nature places in Arizona if you want to travel an hour or more outside the Phoenix metro.
Around here, all we really have that's got shade is the Riparian in Gilbert. People there are constantly posing for pictures like it's Cantigny or something. Stuff that looks like the Riparian is a dime a dozen in many towns around Chicago.
Everyone talks about Chicago crime, but it's really quite isolated. Here, it seems like the crime is more evenly spread out.
Chicago winter can have a wide variety of temps. You can even go outside to some nature place when it's 20 if the sun is out.
The biggest problem here is still the cost of housing. Last time I checked Gilbert at the advice of a guy here from Oak Lawn, I couldn't find one property under 400k. With Scottsdale most of the time the cheapest thing I see is always a townhouse at the Discovery near Tatum and Bell. And those sell for 300-350k. There was a 700 sq foot townhouse there listed at 349k recently and it was the least expensive thing in all of Scottsdale. Since then I spotted a condo for about 230k. Everything for around 150k in Phoenix that I read off to someone who grew up here was in a dangerous area in their opinion.
If you want to go to Aldi, you'll most likely have to drive quite a distance. And with the constant car crashes here, your groceries can spoil if you get stuck behind one.
Phoenix could have as many activities as Chicago, but if you're paying a ridiculous amount for housing, there's a good chance you won't have much money leftover for entertainment.
Another thing I forgot to mention before was all the power outages I experience. Anytime it rains, there's about a 50% chance my power is going out for hours. Even if it's just a mild downpour. Speaking of which, I had to drive down Tatum from the PV Costco to Arcadia when it started raining and within about 5-10 minutes, Tatum was starting to become impassable. If we had left Costco five minutes later, we wouldn't have been able to make it South successfully.
Whoever mentioned not being able to get cold water is dead on. In the place I'm renting, that water is hot if it's hot outside. Only way to make it cold is to stick it in the fridge.
I've been coming here on trips since 2006, seen all kinds of stuff. But in terms of daily living on about a 40k income, I find the experience much less pleasant than what I had on my many prior trips.
Why not? It's home to 24 Fortune 500 companies, so there's a higher number of upper tier jobs, and it has a majestic skyline as a result. At the same time, while it's not a cheap place to live, it's not as expensive as the west or east coasts. In fact, the average home price in Houston is less than Phoenix. The crime rate is also lower than Chicago, which in many ways is comparable in population to Houston (and could easily overtake Chicago in population rank over the next decade or so). I don't really want Phoenix to be a carbon copy of any other city, but I'd rather it be more like Houston than Chicago.
Houston is the energy capital and many of those fortune companies are oil and gas, we're on a trajectory of being an advanced semi-conductor manufacturing capital with a good bit of electric car capacity as well. I think this is a brighter future than oil and gas personally but those big energy companies are quickly diversifying into renewables and I fully expect they'll continue to be Goliaths in the business world.
Houston remains a lot larger than Phoenix, it's CSA population is the same size as the entire state of Arizona. While it does have a nice skyline the street presence is, meh... despite the tall buildings it's a very auto-centric downtown still, I was surprised when visiting there how you saw very little activation on the streets, I think Roosevelt Row has more on most nights.
I'd like to a better skyline emerge in Phoenix but I do appreciate the street activiation we've seen both in the heart of downtown, think we're Block 23 is now and City Center, and along the Northern edge of downtown where Roosevelt is. The 1000s of new residential units should more than double the residents down there in the coming years as well. I'm pretty happy with how we're trending but would love to see a few iconic towers go in that define Phoenix from a skyline perspective.
Houston remains a lot larger than Phoenix, it's CSA population is the same size as the entire state of Arizona. While it does have a nice skyline the street presence is, meh... despite the tall buildings it's a very auto-centric downtown still, I was surprised when visiting there how you saw very little activation on the streets, I think Roosevelt Row has more on most nights.
Houston will likely remain larger than Phoenix for the foreseeable future, but Phoenix's population is growing to the point where it could be Houston's current size in another few decades. This is why we need effective planning & action to keep up with the size. You're correct that downtown Houston doesn't have a lot of street activity, and one possible reason is the tunnels underneath the downtown area which contain shopping & food choices, much like an underground mall. Aside from that, much of Main Street is completely pedestrian oriented, and there are three light rail lines. In comparison, there are currently no pedestrian oriented corridors in downtown Phoenix. Roosevelt Row is (I suppose) a work in progress. It's not all that impressive, but it's certainly better than what it was 15 years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by locolife
I'd like to a better skyline emerge in Phoenix but I do appreciate the street activiation we've seen both in the heart of downtown, think we're Block 23 is now and City Center, and along the Northern edge of downtown where Roosevelt is. The 1000s of new residential units should more than double the residents down there in the coming years as well. I'm pretty happy with how we're trending but would love to see a few iconic towers go in that define Phoenix from a skyline perspective.
Agree 100%, but there are no plans on the books for anything "iconic". The most likely reasons: the proximity of Sky Harbor, and NIMBYs (both of which seem to go hand in hand). I mean, when you have activists protesting something as paltry as 15 stories because they think it's too tall, it's a clear indication that we have a NIMBY problem here.
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