Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Arizona > Phoenix area
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 07-29-2008, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Louisville, KY
1,590 posts, read 4,626,888 times
Reputation: 1381

Advertisements

*this article lost its formatting by coping it here, If you have a hard time reading this version see the original at:

Gas prices drive push to reinvent America's suburbs - USATODAY.com

Quote:
By Haya El Nasser, USA TODAY
MARICOPA, Ariz. — Mayor Tony Smith proudly waves a thank-you letter from a major builder telling him that no city has ever reached out to him in his 30-year career the way Maricopa did.
What Maricopa has been doing is unusual, especially for a distant suburb. This city about 35 miles south of Phoenix is asking builders not to develop just isolated subdivisions behind walls, but whole communities that encourage walking by including stores, schools and services nearby.
"The people of Maricopa don't want to be a bedroom community, a city of rooftops," Smith says. "They want a self-sustained community."



Especially today. As gas prices hover around $4 a gallon, the nation's far-flung suburbs — which have boomed because they could provide larger homes at cheaper prices to those willing to drive farther — are losing their appeal.
Soaring energy costs and the foreclosure epidemic have jolted many Americans into realizing that their lifestyles are at risk. For many, ever-lengthening commutes in the search for affordable homes no longer make financial sense.
In Maricopa and elsewhere, a movement is underway to transform suburbs from bedroom communities that sprang up during an era of cheap gasoline to lively, more cosmopolitan places that mix houses with jobs, shops, restaurants, colleges and entertainment.
Suburbs on the far edge of metro areas are turning aside strip malls and creating new downtowns and neighborhoods that favor pedestrians. They're trying to attract more employers and services such as hospitals, colleges and small airports.
The appeal of urbanism is spreading to far suburbs such as Rancho Cucamonga, Calif.(about 42 miles east of Los Angeles), and Huntersville, N.C., about 16 miles north of Charlotte. Centers that combine residential, retail, office and entertainment are becoming popular far from urban centers.
Small historic towns on the edge of metropolitan areas such as Brighton, Colo., northeast of Denver, and Plainfield, Ill., southwest of Chicago, are emphasizing their Main Streets and history to provide a sense of community outside the walls of sprawling subdivisions.
Mass transit is being embraced by towns that wouldn't have been born without the automobile. Here in Maricopa, the city introduced bus service to Phoenix and Tempe this year, providing the first mass transit alternative to residents, many of whom commute about 35 miles to Phoenix.
Such changes could have a profound effect on the way the nation develops as it prepares to absorb an estimated 100 million more people by about 2040.
The scent of change is in the air in Maricopa, even in the way city officials talk. Words such as "bedroom community" have become dirty words. "Green," "sustainable," "walkable," "mass transit," "conservation," "open space" and "energy-efficient" punctuate the suburban dialogue.
"Absolutely, suburbs are not going to go away," says David Goldberg, spokesman for Smart Growth America, a national coalition of groups pushing for conservation and sustainable growth. "But the math is becoming very clear."
Until now, people were willing to drive increasingly far for a home they could afford. "Drive-till-you-qualify collapsed," Goldberg says. "It's done. It's not going to work as a housing strategy anymore."
Living costs soar
In the past year, as gas prices skyrocketed, the housing bubble burst and transit ridership soared, the cost of living farther out for many Americans went from manageable to pricey.
An analysis of real estate data by Fiserv Lending Solutions shows that home prices have fallen more in towns and neighborhoods far from urban centers than in close-in suburbs.
Developers traditionally have flocked to fields at the edge of metro areas to avoid the stricter zoning rules and higher fees they face in older, more densely populated communities. But that could be changing.
"The trends that pushed housing demand toward distant suburbs and rural areas were not sustainable," says David Stiff, chief economist at Fiserv. "The problem is that it can be two, three, four times as expensive to develop in close-in neighborhoods vs. outlying neighborhoods, if there's any space at all."
If gas prices continue to climb or government provides incentives to build more densely and closer in, development patterns should evolve, planners say.
"People respond to economic incentives," Stiff says. "Reducing commuting costs, trying to be more environmentally conscious and trying to find the cheapest housing affect decisions simultaneously."
"We're sort of stuck with retrofitting the suburbs," says Scott Bernstein, head of the Center for Neighborhood Technology, which for years has urged that transportation costs be a criterion for mortgage qualification. "That's not all that bad. … There's nothing like a crisis to get people to try something."
Fresh ideas about development are spreading. A new website gives "walk" scores for more than 2,500 neighborhoods in the 40 largest cities (walkscore.com). Bernstein's group publishes a housing and transportation affordability index for 52 metropolitan areas (htaindex.cnt.org/).
Kenneth Himmel says now is "the perfect moment to be doing everything we're talking about."
The developer of the Reston Town Center in Virginia, the Time Warner Center in New York and City Place in West Palm Beach, Fla., says: "Some people will say, 'For $300,000 to $325,000, what are my options to live closer?' Maybe it's a smaller home. … Do they want to drive or do they want to be five or 10 minutes from their office? People will make the trade."
The new reality
The Phoenix area is legendary for sprawl. The city alone covers 517 square miles. Surrounding it is 14,000 square miles (twice the size of New Jersey) of desert dotted by seas of rooftops.
Foreclosures have hit the region hard — more than 5,500 the first six months of this year. Home construction permits have slowed by more than half in many communities. Still, building crews are grading tracts of land far from downtown.
Buckeye, more than 30 miles west of Phoenix, and Maricopa, a similar distance to the south, are the suburbs that have the highest number of new single-family home permits.
It's there that the seeds of change are taking root.
"We've got to get jobs to keep people from driving," says Buckeye Mayor Jackie Meck, who worries that gas "could easily go to $8, $10" a gallon.
Meck and town manager Jeanine Guy say Buckeye's goal was never to be a bedroom community but a gateway to California and the Pacific Rim. Already, developers of a master-planned community on 1,100 acres 30 miles beyond Buckeye — 60 miles from Phoenix — are rethinking their project because of fuel costs. They want to turn it into a distribution center that would cut gas costs for truckers from the West who are delivering goods to the Phoenix area.
In Maricopa, the city for the first time is encouraging builders to create sustainable communities that use alternative forms of energy or are near jobs, goods and services. Already, the city is home to Arizona's first ethanol plant and a facility that uses recycled water to flush toilets. And there are the commuter buses to downtown Phoenix and Tempe.
When gas prices inched toward $4 a gallon, Donna Nance bemoaned her 40-mile, one-way commute to work her job as the court clerk in downtown Phoenix. Gas would now cost her $60 a week, a blow for a single mom who had moved here to get a house at a better price.
She considered moving closer, at the risk of giving up her three-bedroom, single-family home and might have done it if Maricopa had not introduced Phoenix-bound commuter buses in April. Nance, 43, now drives 7 miles to the bus stop and enjoys the ride. Even if gas prices keep climbing, Nance says she has no reason to leave.
"We hit a sweet spot starting a transit program here," Mayor Smith says.
It's a reflection of how some suburbs are trying to replace their "middle of nowhere" image with a "there." "Maybe gas drops to $3 a gallon and people will say we don't need to do this anymore," says Guy, the Buckeye town manager. "We do."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-29-2008, 10:52 PM
 
Location: Inside the 101
2,789 posts, read 7,453,985 times
Reputation: 3286
Interesting article. Thanks for sharing. As for the particulars:

-- Transit to, from, and within exurbs -- good idea worth pursuing

-- Walkable downtowns in exurbs -- good idea worth pursuing

-- Job in exurbs -- maybe a good idea in theory, but it never seems to work out. For years, the City of Phoenix has tried to encourage development around multiple urban cores with the idea that people would live and work near those cores. To a certain extent, the strategy has worked. Many people live and many people work near cores like the PV Mall area, the Desert Ridge area, etc. The problem: Often it's not the same people both living and working within the same core. Because the labor market is so specialized, most people take a job in a very defined market niche rather than one near their home. The result is that we end up with a great deal of suburb-to-suburb commuting, a type of commuting that is difficult to support with transit. If major employment centers emerge in Buckeye and Maricopa, it's entirely possible that many workers will commute there from elsewhere in the region while residents of those two exurbs still drive into the core of the metro area. For this reason, I think that decentralized employment is a failed concept. We'd be better off encouraging more companies to locate centrally in a few major commercial centers and then developing the transit infrastructure to bring people in and out of those centers effectively.

Last edited by exit2lef; 07-29-2008 at 11:27 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-30-2008, 07:48 AM
 
1,170 posts, read 3,437,136 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by 61scout80 View Post
*this article lost its formatting by coping it here, If you have a hard time reading this version see the original at:

Gas prices drive push to reinvent America's suburbs - USATODAY.com
Ok, that picture looks really depressing and just made me not want to move there....
Attached Thumbnails
USA Today article featuring Maricopa and Buckeye.-suburbs-topper.jpg  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-30-2008, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn, NY
10,072 posts, read 14,453,980 times
Reputation: 11257
Quote:
Originally Posted by A2M69 View Post
Ok, that picture looks really depressing and just made me not want to move there....
LOL--RIGHT! I absolutely agree. That's a horrible picture. First, the seats on that bus are hideously tacky. The man 2 seats back ruins the picture by staring blankly and intensely at the camera. The desert landscape in the background looks like a poverty-stricken flatlands with telephone poles. And that poor lady looks like she is forced to sit there--and she comes across very uncomfortable with it all.

Terrible photo. AZ is beautiful, but there are some parts that are considered quite barren and "ugly"--depending on your viewpoint. Most is gorgeous though and sunsets and open air are phenomenal. I loved it when I was there. (I lived in Tucson for almost 8 yrs, from 1991 until 1998).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-30-2008, 08:50 AM
 
1,170 posts, read 3,437,136 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjbradleynyc View Post
LOL--RIGHT! I absolutely agree. That's a horrible picture. First, the seats on that bus are hideously tacky. The man 2 seats back ruins the picture by staring blankly and intensely at the camera. The desert landscape in the background looks like a poverty-stricken flatlands with telephone poles. And that poor lady looks like she is forced to sit there--and she comes across very uncomfortable with it all.

Terrible photo. AZ is beautiful, but there are some parts that are considered quite barren and "ugly"--depending on your viewpoint. Most is gorgeous though and sunsets and open air are phenomenal. I loved it when I was there. (I lived in Tucson for almost 8 yrs, from 1991 until 1998).
JJ, that's one great mind you got there!

Exactly what I thought but too lazy to type all that out! IDPOTAW(I do plenty of typing at work!)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-01-2008, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Louisville, KY
1,590 posts, read 4,626,888 times
Reputation: 1381
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjbradleynyc View Post
LOL--RIGHT! I absolutely agree. That's a horrible picture. First, the seats on that bus are hideously tacky. The man 2 seats back ruins the picture by staring blankly and intensely at the camera. The desert landscape in the background looks like a poverty-stricken flatlands with telephone poles. And that poor lady looks like she is forced to sit there--and she comes across very uncomfortable with it all.
So you wouldn't use mass transit if you didn't like the decor choices inside the vehicle??

I do not know where the photo was taken in the route, but it could be anywhere along the route, including on the reservation which is not known for its beauty.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Arizona > Phoenix area

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top