Sheriff Joe (Phoenix, Maricopa: credit, homeless, money)

[Arizona Annie]

Originally Posted by Artliquide

Maybe the cities should build more shelters and create more rehabilitation programs, but then they'd probably say that would be inviting them to stay.

Although this thread isn't about the homeless, I wanted to respond to this part of your post. Unfortunately, although buiding shelters would be a humane response to our homeless population, I believe it would definitely not only invite them to stay but encourage others to come. Just ask Seattle how it turned out for them. Shelters were built and there was a flood of homeless into the city from other cities and even other states. It turned into a homeless mecca. If you build it, they will come.

[MotleyCrew]

I admire his kennel care of the dogs. I admire his pink underwear and his tent city and especially the fact that he puts the dogs in airconditioned jail cells and the prisoners out in the tents.

[wit-nit]

He must be doing something right, voters keep voting him in.

[Artliquide]

Originally Posted by Arizona Annie

Although this thread isn't about the homeless, I wanted to respond to this part of your post. Unfortunately, although buiding shelters would be a humane response to our homeless population, I believe it would definitely not only invite them to stay but encourage others to come. Just ask Seattle how it turned out for them. Shelters were built and there was a flood of homeless into the city from other cities and even other states. It turned into a homeless mecca. If you build it, they will come.

Yeah, I agree. That's what would happen. However, I still think it would be nice if some city somewhere wouldn't treat them as scum and maybe try to fix the homeless problem by going to the root and helping the economy (which includes social services...not handouts but real solutions..."give a man a fish" etc)...There will always be homeless people, but can't they be minimized by reintroducing them to productive society? Many homeless want to have a job and a roof over their heads, but there are just so many obstacles, it's almost impossible once someone gets to that point. That's why we need more organizations like Goodwill, and more government social programs, because believe it or not, getting everyone to contribute to society helps everyone in a grander sense. It's really sad to see people want to go to jail just to have a meal and a roof over their heads (to tie this back into the topic).

Yeah, I'm a bleeding heart, but even if I weren't, I still think that it's beneficial to society as a whole to help others.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by Artliquide

Many homeless want to have a job and a roof over their heads, but there are just so many obstacles, it's almost impossible once someone gets to that point.

Having been actively involved in trying to help this population (homeless), I can tell you, from first hand knowledge, that MOST, do not want help - they refuse help - and there is simply no way you can force them to get help

All you can do is try to encourage the person to get help - let them know it is available - how to get it - etc.

Few avail themselves though

[Artliquide]

Originally Posted by Greatday

Having been actively involved in trying to help this population (homeless), I can tell you, from first hand knowledge, that MOST, do not want help - they refuse help - and there is simply no way you can force them to get help

All you can do is try to encourage the person to get help - let them know it is available - how to get it - etc.

Few avail themselves though

Hmmm, that's not my experience, but I don't work with homeless people, so my perspective may be flawed. What do you do with the homeless?

[MotleyCrew]

San Francisco is a great example of making house pets out of the homeless. They are all well fed and well liquored with their city check and the hand outs they get. It truly is a paradise. Chico is another example of throwing good money after bad. We built a very expensive stainless steel bathroom for them and they still refused to use it, only trashed it, and continue to urinate and defecate where they please. Some people mean well by wanting to help and help we should. I am not critical of those that do. However, by continued support with shelters and not an ounce of responsibility on their parts, we simply continue down the same old path. Some need to be institutionalized for their safety and the safety of others. Drug rehab in this country is a joke, a revolving door for the doomed. It takes a minimum of 6 mos to get Heroin out of your system. We kick them out after a few weeks. Meth with only add to the mix in the near future.

[Artliquide]

Originally Posted by MotleyCrew

San Francisco is a great example of making house pets out of the homeless. They are all well fed and well liquored with their city check and the hand outs they get. It truly is a paradise. Chico is another example of throwing good money after bad. We built a very expensive stainless steel bathroom for them and they still refused to use it, only trashed it, and continue to urinate and defecate where they please. Some people mean well by wanting to help and help we should. I am not critical of those that do. However, by continued support with shelters and not an ounce of responsibility on their parts, we simply continue down the same old path. Some need to be institutionalized for their safety and the safety of others. Drug rehab in this country is a joke, a revolving door for the doomed. It takes a minimum of 6 mos to get Heroin out of your system. We kick them out after a few weeks. Meth with only add to the mix in the near future.

Yes, that's definitely true. I guess we need to figure out where the middle ground is. I'm all for eliminating handouts, but not treating all homeless like scum by creating practical social services for those who decide they want to re-enter productive society.

[Arizona Annie]

Originally Posted by Artliquide

Yeah, I agree. That's what would happen. However, I still think it would be nice if some city somewhere wouldn't treat them as scum and maybe try to fix the homeless problem by going to the root and helping the economy (which includes social services...not handouts but real solutions..."give a man a fish" etc)...There will always be homeless people, but can't they be minimized by reintroducing them to productive society? Many homeless want to have a job and a roof over their heads, but there are just so many obstacles, it's almost impossible once someone gets to that point. That's why we need more organizations like Goodwill, and more government social programs, because believe it or not, getting everyone to contribute to society helps everyone in a grander sense. It's really sad to see people want to go to jail just to have a meal and a roof over their heads (to tie this back into the topic).

Yeah, I'm a bleeding heart, but even if I weren't, I still think that it's beneficial to society as a whole to help others.

I agree completely. We need to do what we can, whenever we can. I would say more, but I'm trying to be mindful of the thread topic.

[tesswin]

Originally Posted by Artliquide

You know, there are actually more homeless people who are genuinely down on their luck, or had bad things happen to them, than most people realize. Yes, there are some who just want freebies, but a lot of the homeless people I've met are homeless because:

1. They have a mental disorder, were released from the hospital with no chance of surviving on their own (I watched a man have an epileptic seizure after I fed him a burger once...he had just gotten done telling me that he has no money for meds and the only family he has is his mother who struggles to pay her own bills)

2. They have had a hard life (one man insisted that I take a radio he'd found when I offered to buy him food...after he said "no, but thank you" about 3 times...he then told me a bit about his story, which included divorce and losing his job...it happens)

3. They are born into poverty and just can't seem to get out of it (my dad taught at Thomas J. Pappas school for homeless kids over 2 summers, and I assisted him a bit...have you ever met a kid who was so excited to get a pair of used shoes that are worn out and too big for her because the ones she's had for a long time have holes in them? Or, a kid who never eats besides the two free meals they give her at school? These kids loooooove school. It's safe, and it's probably the only place where they and their families are not considered low-lifes because they're homeless...it's also the only constant thing in their lives, since if they're not lucky enough to get into a shelter, they have to move every few weeks after being kicked out of the park)

4. They're kids or adults who were abused or battered and would rather live on the street than keep living that life (I met a woman who made whatever little she could by writing poems for people on the street. She ran away from an abusive husband and is trying to get back on her feet, but it's hard to do when shelters only keep you for so long and companies won't hire people if they have no permanent address or decent clothes)

Try talking to some homeless people...talk to them as human beings and not as scum of the earth which needs to be scraped off our streets (because a street looking "nice" is so much more important than human compassion ). Some of them are junkies, and some are idiots who demand things from you, and some are genuinely down on their luck. I've met far more homeless people in the last category. It makes me ill when people look at other human beings as lower than them or irrelevant.

Sorry, got carried away. So, the homeless situation...there used to be a lot of runaway hippie teens in Tempe. They would jump the train and come to Tempe in the winter. Tempe decided that they're not fit to be on the street (even though their drum jams and general artsy stuff was a better climate, imho, than the now corporate Tempe). Downtown Phoenix has been working on getting rid of homeless people too, since they're turning downtown into yuppieville. Personally, as long as they're not stealing from me or trying to attack me, I don't see why they can't be there. Maybe the cities should build more shelters and create more rehabilitation programs, but then they'd probably say that would be inviting them to stay.

I deal with my local homeless guys every day that I work because they are part of my job and they are NOT what you describe. I wish they were because then I would be able to help them. These (with the exception of one black male) are ALL white males, in their late 30's to 50's, and they will tell you that they make more money on the street than at a job. They will tell you that they are out here because it suits them. These homeless guys:
1)Do not have mental problems and they do not want to be a positive contributing member of society. Most of them have family in the area that want nothing to do with them because they want everything for free.
2)They've had a hard life....who hasn't? Who hasn't gone thru an abusive relationship or divorce or whatever? Give me a break. If people were homeless because of that, there'd more a lot more out there. And everyone of these guys have a sob story.

3)I do not have homeless anyone that was "born" into the lifestyle.

4) Battered and abused people have choices besides being homeless. There is real help out there but it does require a bit of work to get through it.

None of what you describe is the reason for those in my area being homeless. Most of them go to work (mostly day labor but it's still job) during the summer months because there are no tourists to beg from. Then they buy beer (and some do drugs) and drink until they pass out...and do it again tomorrow.

Not all homeless people are good people.