The prob with the Urban Cores is that they are too expensive

[shiphead]

Originally Posted by hootie

Overpriced condo's will work in Scottsdale and the Biltmore area. But high priced condos in ASU's backyard are a joke. Same goes for Phoenix. As it has always been pointed out, if people with money want a monthly payment 3 grand for 900sq ft and a view, they sure don't want crazies and homeless people right out their front door. NYC is NYC and SFO is SFO, so you deal with it. But why the hell would anybody need to pay 700g in tempe for a 2 bedroom condo when they could have a 2500 sq ft house in a quiet area, with a private pool with enough funds to pay people to give you a zero maintanaince lifestyle with money still leftover and only ten minutes away, AND you'd actually be closer to more restaurants and grocery stores.

my thoughts exactly. These high rises are not made for the middle class. 75K -100K a year is not middle class. They include "luxury" with all condos in the phoenix area, along with "luxury" grocery stores.

[sierraAZ]

I for one don't care that much for living there necessarily. I just like having a lively downtown to go to when I feel like to.

[dbean]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Urban cores of the future such as PHX desires will not be populated by young people. The target demographic of the new condos etc is well-to-do retirees - rich boomers. There is no money to be made off of starving artists and students. And it's always about money.

Totally agree w/ you there. However, then why are the 'urban condos' marketed to be near nightlife, shopping and centralized public trans. (light rail). IMHO these 3 activities/services aren't sought after by retirees and rich snobs.

Just doesn't make sense.

[joninaz]

Originally Posted by TurcoLoco

I hate to admit it but high prices keeps the riff-raff away. Cities/communities who desire to build that kind of an image will even put the profits in the back-burner for a while at least.

So what's the income threshold for riff-raff versus non riff-raff these days? Just curious.

35K, 50K, 80K, 100K?

I ask because if one uses the traditional affordability rule of buying a place 3 times one's annual income, it would seem that one would need a 6 figure salary to get into an entry level condo/loft in any current urban project. And I never mentioned the lux high rises, which other keep bringing up. I've yet to see any project that's in a typical range of decent salaried folks.

The riff raff will have easy access to any urban core, especially with light rail. And there's plenty of rich riff raff who most wouldn't want as neighbors. Meanwhile, I'd like to live near the cello player trying to make the symphony, or the undiscovered chef paying their dues. A good urban core will have a good mix of people of all incomes.

[shiphead]

Originally Posted by joninaz

So what's the income threshold for riff-raff versus non riff-raff these days? Just curious.

35K, 50K, 80K, 100K?

I ask because if one uses the traditional affordability rule of buying a place 3 times one's annual income, it would seem that one would need a 6 figure salary to get into an entry level condo/loft in any current urban project. And I never mentioned the lux high rises, which other keep bringing up. I've yet to see any project that's in a typical range of decent salaried folks.

The riff raff will have easy access to any urban core, especially with light rail. And there's plenty of rich riff raff who most wouldn't want as neighbors. Meanwhile, I'd like to live near the cello player trying to make the symphony, or the undiscovered chef paying their dues. A good urban core will have a good mix of people of all incomes.

thank you thank you. My parents made 40K combined for many years and never caused riff raff. All these high rises will turn into giant apartments.

[banger]

I truly don't want this to sound nasty,BUT... if you truly want to live with cello players and up and coming chefs, that is the purpose of public housing.

One could live in public high rises along with the crack addicts, muggers, single mothers and section 8's.

There is a market however for "upscale" urbanites that want to be in the city, but DEMAND luxury.

I do not begrudge the struggling artist his place in the city...I just don't want to share it with him.

I know, I know, I can see it coming already, That makes me a BAD man.

[cap1717]

There are other options for "urban core" living. Existing, renovated historic homes near downtown are quite pricey, but there are deals to be had in some of the less gentriried areas that will soon be candidates for "historic" status. Many of these small homes can provide more affordable houseing, possible rental income (large lots, guest houses, etc.) as well as the urban enviornment that many seek.

[azjack]

"There is a market however for "upscale" urbanites that want to be in the city, but DEMAND luxury."

There is little demand for $500K-plus condos in the Phoenix area absent a lending bubble. There is a market for luxury condos, just a very narrow one filled with people uninterested in overpaying some developer who failed in his gamble.

[joninaz]

Originally Posted by banger

I truly don't want this to sound nasty,BUT... if you truly want to live with cello players and up and coming chefs, that is the purpose of public housing.

One could live in public high rises along with the crack addicts, muggers, single mothers and section 8's.

There is a market however for "upscale" urbanites that want to be in the city, but DEMAND luxury.

I do not begrudge the struggling artist his place in the city...I just don't want to share it with him.

I know, I know, I can see it coming already, That makes me a BAD man.

Banger - do you even live here or know what you are talking about in regards to this area? We don't have public housing high rises to begin with. And crack is so 80s. But single mothers are definitely terrorizing the people of PHX! Jeez.

The point of this thread wasn't that there shouldn't be high end places (they should), or that muggers and drug addicts should be accommodated. But in these newly developing urban cores, pretty much every project is priced well above the typical salaries of many people with respected professions. My parents did well in life and live in a really nice part of San Diego but their area is God-awfully boring with no nighlife, unique restaurants, etc. If you create a core that is too sanitary - the downtown gated community - you risk losing the funky businesses and attributes that make urban living attractive to begin with.

[JoePAz]

Hey,
That lifestyle is not for everyone, but some people will like it. It is kind of funny that people complain about Phoenix not having a vibrant downtown and when a developer create a residential plan that helps create and sustain a vibrant downtown you guys complain too.

The idea of urban luxury living may be new to Phoenix, but is quite common in places like San Fransciso, Seattle and of course New York. So far developers think it will work here too. Maybe yes and maybe no.

Like I said in my first post in this thread my wife and I love the idea of this kind of living. We often say "Wouldn't it be cool if..." when we see these places. However given our desire to have children we just can't see it working out. However if we decided to not have kids or way 10 more years and focus on career places like this become very interesting. We are both in our early 30's so a dual professional income with no kids would probably allow us to afford something like that. As for space two adults don't need a 3000sqft Loft. Heck 1500 sqft is probably more than enough. Figure a master bdrm, guest bdrm, den, and great room would be sufficent.

So like I said we both see the how it could work, but when have 2 year old we just don't think the urban lifestyle works as well. As such we have moved way to suburb land and my wife stays home and works part time with her own business. I am the primary earner and we live in a family oriented community.