In defense of the valley, the unbiased pros and cons of the valley of the sun (Phoenix: credit, home)

[desertskies]

Originally Posted by DR2012

I'm living in the sweaty crotch of America, so for me to be moving to the "armpit" of America (3 weeks to go!) will be an upgrade, LOL.

There's more of a skyline there than here. For once in my life I just want to see a mountain. Hmm no you know what, I'll take a couple hills at this point. As long as there is a mountain within a 3-hour radius it's a step up for me.

I wouldn't call Louisiana a crotch, sweaty yes, but not a crotch. I spent a few years there and have experienced the sweatiness first hand. Rough is an understatement. As for the three hour window to find any mountains here, you'll make it with at least 90 minutes to spare. Just remember to do three things...hydrate then hydrate again then hydrate some more. Squaw Peak (oops) PIESTEWA Peak or South Mountain look tame, but occasionally, some become distressed because they thought they had enough water before any hike or climb. The same can be said for Echo Canyon at Camelback Mountain

From the land of mud bugs and love bugs to the Valley of the Sun, I say welcome!

[Macaw1981]

My pros:

1 Nice mountains and parks
2 Weather is nice even till 100 with low humidity it does not feel like it
3 Some of the best food I have had anywhere around the country
4 It is great for mountain biking
5 Great solar opportunity


My cons:

1 The weather in August is terrible
2 Lots of young activists moving here from eastern cities who made a mess of their home cities but then advocate the same policies here.
3 The traffic and sprawl (4 is related)
4 Too many HOAs and Historic Districts so people like myself say "forget it" with living close to the core because of regulations and move further out...freedom is always good!
5 For someone like me I am what I guess you would call a social liberal (for gay marriage, seperation of church and state), but a fiscal and small government man. This place is more like a paradox in that aspect. It has many of the things I dislike about the far right along with many things I dislike about the far left in terms of politics.

[magnum0417]

Originally Posted by Howard Roark

Hey Magnum, great points - I also agree 100% with your libertarian things and my pet peeve is the lack of using turn signals in Phoenix. Those people include (ugh) the city's "finest" - cops. They are very rude because they obviously do not use signals so they can get an upperhand on another motorist. In reality lack of signalling puts both perpetrator and other driver's life in danger. It's retarded.

Thanks Howard. As stated, I HATE Photo Radars despite not getting one of those "tickets" yet. However, I purposely avoid Mesa and do all my shopping in Tempe. On Baseline in Mesa, they still have a Photo Radar active at the Rhodes JR HS just east of Dobson.

Lastly, you think the drivers are nutty with the lack of turn signals on the freeways ? It would be WORSE is they didn't get people on from the exit ramps one at a time. I am supportive of the "one car at a time" enforcement during peak business hours on the ramps to the 101 which I travel . Otherwise, there'd be accidents EVERYDAY heading South on The 101 around the McDowell and McKellips exits.

[Ponderosa]

Not to be nasty or anything but these testimonials by people who have lived here for only a few months or a year or so are pretty worthless IMO. They are impressions at best and are often full of inaccuracies based on their limited exposure and experience in the valley. The OP in this thread is a great example. We have a 21 yo who has been here for 1 year who opines that the schools are not great! How would he know? Kids in the schools? Teacher? No, none of the above. He is just parroting something he heard from someone who heard it from a friend of someone who knows somebody else who had a kid in school here 10 years ago. This is just junk. Live here for 10 years or so in different parts of the valley, have different jobs, commute to different places, have kids in school. Those of us who have just roll our eyes when they see posts like this one and many of the replies. Explore, learn and then your comments might have more factual basis.

[ReadyFreddy]

I agree that the schools are not terrible. And this part is laughable:

After K-12, you have no choices.

We have the largest community college system in the nation, the largest state U, several other 4-year colleges, plus two other huge state U's within 3 hours.

Maybe there is a shortage of turn signal usage by some peoples' standards because there are so many 'turn only' lanes? I frequently don't use my turn signals if I'm in a turn lane. I'm clearly turning if I'm in a turn lane. I don't always wait for a turn signal from the guy to my right who's lane is ending, to let him in. I know he needs in. I just don't get the turn signal rage.

[KidArizona]

Originally Posted by magnum0417

Been here sporadically for 20 years and have been a permanent resident for 5 weeks. I personally love Tempe but here's my honest assessment on the East Valley as a whole.

PROS

1) Coming from NY, love the roads. No potholes which saves money on suspension issues.
2) Lower state taxes from paycheck than NY. I choose 3.6% but many choose 2.7% .
3) Grid setup making it hard to get lost around Phoenix and East Valley. Never really ventured to West Valley but I will be seeing some Cardinal games this fall.
4) 4 major pro sports teams.
5) People seem respectful and not entitled to something for the most part.
6) Lovely scenery. 4000 plus foot high peaks surround the Valley of The Sun.
7) Cultural Diversity.
8) International Foods and Restaurants.
9) Awesome Buffets at the Casinos. Especially Red Rock at Fort McDowell. All the Prime Rib and Shrimp you can eat on Thursday for $9.99 with Players Card.
10) Diverse weather and vegetation over short distances due to elevation differences.

I love it here but no place is utopic. Here are a few CONS

1) Photo Radar. I'm sorry it's BS. If you aren't caught in person by a cop, it shouldn't count.
2) I've spent time here in the summer. 115 is hot humidity or dry heat.
3) Being Libertarian, it seems the Government is a bit far right despite those I know being like me here. Social liberal and fiscal conservative.
4) Hate snow and love the winter weather here. However, it does get redundant and seeing 40's and 50's up in Payson or Prescott is a refreshing change for short spurts on weekends. I guess you can say the same about the summer where it's some 20 degrees cooler there too.
5) LASTLY. Freeway Drivers. Signals don't apply to some and you have to use defensive driving. I've driven NYC and it's comparable not for traffic. But for wackos switching lanes without any warning.

In closing, way more positives than negatives. Refreshing to be out here for good after getting small samples for years.

This state used to be more libertarian and independent, the GOP here is falling more in line with the religious right than times past

[mjd2k]

Originally Posted by ReadyFreddy

I agree that the schools are not terrible. And this part is laughable: We have the largest community college system in the nation, the largest state U, several other 4-year colleges, plus two other huge state U's within 3 hours.

Maybe there is a shortage of turn signal usage by some peoples' standards because there are so many 'turn only' lanes? I frequently don't use my turn signals if I'm in a turn lane. I'm clearly turning if I'm in a turn lane. I don't always wait for a turn signal from the guy to my right who's lane is ending, to let him in. I know he needs in. I just don't get the turn signal rage.

I'm with ya on the turn signals. Seldom bothered me that someone didn't signal. I often don't signal if its a useless gesture.

[theyreinphx]

I have lived here for my entire life. I would love to move out of this state just to see what it is like but unfortunately I am a little stuck at the moment. My husband has a really good job and we have three kids in school. If the time is right though I will jump at the chance to move. However, here is my list:

Pros:
Good weather from October - May
There are some good school here, you just have to really hunt for them
cheap housing
easy to get around
Salaries are much lower in the tech field than they should be
Too many people who live beyond their means (I guess that could be anywhere though)

Cons:
Too many Walmarts/big corporations - not many small businesses survive here
weather is unbearable in June/July/August
Schools in general suck
Politics here are aweful
Very suburban feel - cookie cutter houses - no uniqueness

[Champ le monstre du lac]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Not to be nasty or anything but these testimonials by people who have lived here for only a few months or a year or so are pretty worthless IMO. They are impressions at best and are often full of inaccuracies based on their limited exposure and experience in the valley. The OP in this thread is a great example. We have a 21 yo who has been here for 1 year who opines that the schools are not great! How would he know? Kids in the schools? Teacher? No, none of the above. He is just parroting something he heard from someone who heard it from a friend of someone who knows somebody else who had a kid in school here 10 years ago. This is just junk. Live here for 10 years or so in different parts of the valley, have different jobs, commute to different places, have kids in school. Those of us who have just roll our eyes when they see posts like this one and many of the replies. Explore, learn and then your comments might have more factual basis.

Not everybody has the same worldview as you and perhaps people who have been in Phoenix for a few weeks or a year or a lifetime observe and notice different things about it than you do. It's called perspective. Just because you've been there for 10+ years or however long does not invalidate their experiences, in fact many of them seem very insightful.

[dura]

Originally Posted by magnum0417

... On Baseline in Mesa, they still have a Photo Radar active at the Rhodes JR HS just east of Dobson. ...

Just an FYI about that...

Originally Posted by azcentral.com

In 2005, 14-year-old Rhodes Junior High student Sean Casey, was hit by a car and killed as he walked home from football practice.

Two years later, police succeeded in placing two stationary speed-enforcement cameras on Baseline Road across from Rhodes to photograph and cite drivers surpassing the 35 mph reduced speed limit.

...

Before photo-radar cameras were placed near Rhodes in 2005, 85 percent of drivers were driving more than 45 mph past the school, Nesbit said. During school hours the posted speed limit is 35 mph.

"The last study we did showed traffic is now under 35 mph (at Rhodes)," Nesbit said. "Simply slowing that traffic down means people can now stop three to four times sooner."

...

Read more at Mesa police install speed cameras outside 2 schools