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I didn't offer any criticisms, just observations from a native who has watched the city grow over several decades. In order to disagree with what I said, you'd essentially have to argue that if we uprooted Phoenix and placed it in the middle of the rust belt, a similar amount of people would still have a strong interest in moving here. I doubt anyone would honestly make that claim. We have little culture, little history, terrible government, poor education, a fairly high cost of living compared to the majority of the nation. The list goes on. Luckily, we aren't in the middle of the rust belt, and thus remain a pretty attractive destination despite the city and state's myriad faults.
I didn't offer any criticisms, just observations from a native who has watched the city grow over several decades. In order to disagree with what I said, you'd essentially have to argue that if we uprooted Phoenix and placed it in the middle of the rust belt, a similar amount of people would still have a strong interest in moving here. I doubt anyone would honestly make that claim. We have little culture, little history, terrible government, poor education, a fairly high cost of living compared to the majority of the nation. The list goes on. Luckily, we aren't in the middle of the rust belt, and thus remain a pretty attractive destination despite the city and state's myriad faults.
I guess it is all relative. When you say the "state" has poor education, and "a high cost" of living compared the the majority of the nation you really limit your "majority" stance. The actuality is that the majority of the nation is more expensive save the south. The northeast, northwest, California, mid-Atlantic, and some areas of the mid-west are actually much more expensive compared to Arizona and taxes in those "cheaper" places like Texas can equal out the COL. Most people don't move to "Arizona" but to Phoenix. In that sense the education, COL, culture, government, etc. is much stronger and in a better position then most of the nation. Unemployment in Phoenix, Tucson, and Flagstaff is much, much lower than any city in the U.S. and about equal to those in Texas making AZ and Phoenix bright spots. Cities like Detroit, Chicago, NYC, L.A., Seattle, and on and on have unemployment rates suprassing 11% and some approaching 20% while Texas and AZ cities sit near 7%...Education in urban AZ actually outpaces the rest of the nation. Again, those cities listed above have higher teen pregnancy rates and drop out rates. Detroit has a 24% graduation rate, Chicago has a sub 40% rate same with NYC, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Dallas, Houston, etc. Phoenix, Mesa, Scottsdale, Glendale are the only large cities in the nation with a 60% or greater graduation rate. Mesa is the only city with more than 250,000 people or more with a greater than 70% graduation rate. That compared to the rest of the nation is a much better situation. Smaller cities like Scottsdale, Chandler, Tempe, Gilbert, Surprise, Paradise Valley, etc. have much better rates of graduation and college acceptance when compared nationally to cities of similar disposition.
I think Phoenix is a solid place to settle down. That said, I have serious problems with the way it is run. For instance, we are limited to just 3 state funded universities which must serve an enormous--and continually growing-- population base. That is an embarrassment. The state of Oregon has less than half the population of Arizona, and yet they have more than triple the amount of universities that AZ does. We are consistently ranked around 49 in national education rankings, and also rank 49 in unemployment benefits. However, we rank first in statewide investment in photo radar (which is a genuinely horrible system operating in a legal gray area) and are consistently voted as having "nicest roads". While I do admire the quality of the roads, I don't appreciate the disregard for seemingly more important things like education and sustainability.
I think Phoenix is a solid place to settle down. That said, I have serious problems with the way it is run. For instance, we are limited to just 3 state funded universities which must serve an enormous--and continually growing-- population base. That is an embarrassment. The state of Oregon has less than half the population of Arizona, and yet they have more than triple the amount of universities that AZ does. We are consistently ranked around 49 in national education rankings, and also rank 49 in unemployment benefits. However, we rank first in statewide investment in photo radar (which is a genuinely horrible system operating in a legal gray area) and are consistently voted as having "nicest roads". While I do admire the quality of the roads, I don't appreciate the disregard for seemingly more important things like education and sustainability.
Arizona has 7 million people with three large state funded universities and Oregon has 4 million people with two state funded public universities. A better comparison is Washington state with 6.5 million people and 2 large state funded universities, UW and WSU...Oregon and Washington have many small private colleges and universities just like AZ; Thunderbird, Grand Canyon University, Central Arizona, Embry Riddle, Western International, Arizona Western, Chaparral College, Midwestern University, Southwester, and many more small private schools just like Washington and Oregon. Maricopa county also has an extensive and praised community college system. We don't rank 48th in educational attainment, graduation, college acceptance, etc. we rank low in PER PUPIL SPENDING. Many people confuse last in expenditures as last in education as a rating of achievement which isn't the case. You can throw all the money in the world at a problem but doesn't necessarily mean the schools are excelling, succeeding or properly education students. Again, Phoenix area schools outpace Arizona in general in educational spending. In Phoenix, we've passed many bonds and increased taxes for school districts in the urban regions and the rural school districts in Arizona don't have that financial advantage; that is a huge difference. Arizona universities, especially ASU and UofA have renowned and exceptional colleges within the larger university system...Think W.P. Carey SChool of Business, Keller School of Management, Walter Kronkite School of Journalism, UofA Med. School, ASU School of Law, Engineering, Public Policy, Education, Nursing, Health Care, and research programs that are world renowned like the space and exploration program at ASU that NASA relies on and such projects like the Phoenix Mars Rover where created, the bio-design institute at ASU, Morrison Institute, The Global Institute of Sustainability (the first of its kind in the world) and too many programs to list on this forum. Many people might find it interesting and hard to believe but sustainability efforts and research coming out of ASU competes with the likes of Harvard, Yale, and the University of Washington @ Seattle, UC Berkeley, etc. ASU was one of only 15 U.S. schools to be named "greenest" and forward thinking universities in the nation: http://sustainability.asu.edu/
This is an international point of interest that will serve Arizona, Phoenix, and ASU very well in the future. And you are right, there is still plenty more to be done and that will be done. Being happy with the status quo or being complacent isn't the answer and I don't think anyone in education, at the universities, etc. are happy with complacency and more of the same.
Last edited by fcorrales80; 08-13-2009 at 12:52 AM..
I think Phoenix is a solid place to settle down. That said, I have serious problems with the way it is run. For instance, we are limited to just 3 state funded universities which must serve an enormous--and continually growing-- population base. That is an embarrassment. The state of Oregon has less than half the population of Arizona, and yet they have more than triple the amount of universities that AZ does. We are consistently ranked around 49 in national education rankings, and also rank 49 in unemployment benefits. However, we rank first in statewide investment in photo radar (which is a genuinely horrible system operating in a legal gray area) and are consistently voted as having "nicest roads". While I do admire the quality of the roads, I don't appreciate the disregard for seemingly more important things like education and sustainability.
And Oregon has obscene property taxes; if I were to live in the PNW--------it would be Washington State hands down.
Arizona has 7 million people with three large state funded universities and Oregon has 4 million people with two state funded public universities. A better comparison is Washington state with 6.5 million people and 2 large state funded universities, UW and WSU...Oregon and Washington have many small private colleges and universities just like AZ; Thunderbird, Grand Canyon University, Central Arizona, Embry Riddle, Western International, Arizona Western, Chaparral College, Midwestern University, Southwester, and many more small private schools just like Washington and Oregon. Maricopa county also has an extensive and praised community college system. We don't rank 48th in educational attainment, graduation, college acceptance, etc. we rank low in PER PUPIL SPENDING. Many people confuse last in expenditures as last in education as a rating of achievement which isn't the case. You can throw all the money in the world at a problem but doesn't necessarily mean the schools are excelling, succeeding or properly education students. Again, Phoenix area schools outpace Arizona in general in educational spending. In Phoenix, we've passed many bonds and increased taxes for school districts in the urban regions and the rural school districts in Arizona don't have that financial advantage; that is a huge difference. Arizona universities, especially ASU and UofA have renowned and exceptional colleges within the larger university system...Think W.P. Carey SChool of Business, Keller School of Management, Walter Kronkite School of Journalism, UofA Med. School, ASU School of Law, Engineering, Public Policy, Education, Nursing, Health Care, and research programs that are world renowned like the space and exploration program at ASU that NASA relies on and such projects like the Phoenix Mars Rover where created, the bio-design institute at ASU, Morrison Institute, The Global Institute of Sustainability (the first of its kind in the world) and too many programs to list on this forum. Many people might find it interesting and hard to believe but sustainability efforts and research coming out of ASU competes with the likes of Harvard, Yale, and the University of Washington @ Seattle, UC Berkeley, etc. ASU was one of only 15 U.S. schools to be named "greenest" and forward thinking universities in the nation: Global Institute of Sustainability // Arizona State University
This is an international point of interest that will serve Arizona, Phoenix, and ASU very well in the future. And you are right, there is still plenty more to be done and that will be done. Being happy with the status quo or being complacent isn't the answer and I don't think anyone in education, at the universities, etc. are happy with complacency and more of the same.
Puhleeez! The Phoenix Mars Rover project was lead by the UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONA scientists - not Tempe Normal (aka ASU)! Rest of your post is right on. There is some irony in the bashers knocking AZ education. Their pitiful plight and failure to thrive is often due in large measure to their lack of education, yet they fail to recognize or take advantage of the many opportunities for self-improvement the area offers. For them, it is more rewarding to some to whine about a perceived lack of good paying jobs than to make the investment in obtaining the requisite skills and education needed for those jobs.
And Oregon has obscene property taxes; if I were to live in the PNW--------it would be Washington State hands down.
The states that don't have state sales tax all make that up somewhere. Oregon and Florida both have very high property taxes. From what I've read here from people in many other states, AZ property taxes are quite low compared to many other states; I believe, but don't have statistics on it, that our state income tax is relatively low as well.
The states that don't have state sales tax all make that up somewhere. Oregon and Florida both have very high property taxes. From what I've read here from people in many other states, AZ property taxes are quite low compared to many other states; I believe, but don't have statistics on it, that our state income tax is relatively low as well.
As you stated.
Frankly: I would much rather pay a stiff sales tax on non food items vs. being dinged on the other two items you mentioned.
Puhleeez! The Phoenix Mars Rover project was lead by the UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONA scientists - not Tempe Normal (aka ASU)! Rest of your post is right on. There is some irony in the bashers knocking AZ education. Their pitiful plight and failure to thrive is often due in large measure to their lack of education, yet they fail to recognize or take advantage of the many opportunities for self-improvement the area offers. For them, it is more rewarding to some to whine about a perceived lack of good paying jobs than to make the investment in obtaining the requisite skills and education needed for those jobs.
LOL, you are right, ASU researchers created THEMIS on NASA's Mars Odyssey...Arizona School of Agriculture and Mines (AKA UofA) assisted in developing the rover...Did you know that "Tempe Normal" or Arizona State Teachers College was the first in the state to award actual teaching degrees and also degrees in mechanical arts... LOL, mechanical arts is now known as engineering. But you are right about those that bash and complain who've moved from other states and don't want to work and go to school to better their situation; many believe they should just be given jobs for moving to Phoenix...
Just another ASU fact pondie: "Since 1992, only Harvard and Yale have had more students selected for USA Today's ranking of the nation's top 20 undergraduates." http://www.asu.edu/about/
Last edited by fcorrales80; 08-13-2009 at 10:24 AM..
wow you could not have been more wrong about Oregon. State funded universities:
Oregon, Oregon State, Portland State, Western Oregon, Eastern Oregon, Southern Oregon, Oregon Health and Science University. All state funded.
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