Has paid event parking been affected by the Valley Metro Light-Rail?

[joninaz]

Originally Posted by silverbear

That's a new one -- claiming that Downtown businesses are experiencing less business due to light rail being in operation. From what I've seen, it's exactly the opposite. I can't go a week without hearing about another light rail pub crawl, often with several stops Downtown, and some restaurants not previously open during weekends are now adding hours because of increased foot traffic in front of their doors. People from the suburbs are discovering places they didn't know about and rediscovering old favorites they'd forgotten.

Pub crawls are a novelty already wearing off. I'm in groups that have done them and most have said they should have stayed on Mill. There's absolutely nothing of interest along most of the route. Mesa? Nope. Washington? Dead. Maybe a handful of places near downtown/central. 2 or 3 places north of Thomas. And extended hours? The trains stop running hours before last call. One risks getting stuck downtown if not heading home early enough. I know several business owners who have indeed lost traffic because the rail "channels" don't allow people to make a left turn into their lots, as they could before. It certainly impacts the bottom line if consumers have to overshoot and circle back, since a percentage will simply choose to skip and go somewhere else. Not all businesses are pedestrian reliant and even then - rail isn't delivering any numbers of pedestrians that justify the massive cost of the system. Phoenix Art Museum has a rail station out front yet will be announcing this week they are closing down another whole day per week due to low attendance. As I've said before, rail works fine in some cities, but not PHX. And even if the dye was cast by voters with good intentions, the subsequent design decisions and plans have been horrible.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by joninaz

Pub crawls are a novelty already wearing off. I'm in groups that have done them and most have said they should have stayed on Mill. There's absolutely nothing of interest along most of the route. Mesa? Nope. Washington? Dead. Maybe a handful of places near downtown/central. 2 or 3 places north of Thomas. And extended hours? The trains stop running hours before last call. One risks getting stuck downtown if not heading home early enough. I know several business owners who have indeed lost traffic because the rail "channels" don't allow people to make a left turn into their lots, as they could before. It certainly impacts the bottom line if consumers have to overshoot and circle back, since a percentage will simply choose to skip and go somewhere else. Not all businesses are pedestrian reliant and even then - rail isn't delivering any numbers of pedestrians that justify the massive cost of the system. Phoenix Art Museum has a rail station out front yet will be announcing this week they are closing down another whole day per week due to low attendance. As I've said before, rail works fine in some cities, but not PHX. And even if the dye was cast by voters with good intentions, the subsequent design decisions and plans have been horrible.

Shifting argument here. First, you said business would be lost because people could eat and drink in suburbia before they could come into town for an event. They could do that before rail. Rail makes it possible for them to discover new places and make stops along the way without worrying about parking. Now, you're claiming reduced left turn opportunities are hurting business. I've yet to see any documentation of that, and I suspect PAM's change in hours is due more to economic circumstances than anything else.

As regards to the "horrible" designs decisions and plans, you've never provided a workable alternative design in all your diatribes against light rail in Phoenix. It's one thing to say you don't like the track in the street and another to provide a cost-effective alternative routing. Of course, doing so would require being pro-something instead of anti-everything when it comes to rail, and I fear that you actually would prefer to keep rail out of Phoenix altogether. If that's the case, then we're so far apart that there's zero common ground on which to base discussion, especially when the line has already been built and incessant naysaying therefore serves no purpose.

[Jimrob1]

Originally Posted by pbenjamin

This honor system using fare inspectors is fairly common. Berlin and Portland are examples of similar systems.

The way that the rail lines in front of the platforms are just separated from the roadway by a curb would make it too easy to avoid a turnstile and encourage people to cross the tracks at a dangerous spot.

Portland could win the academy award for most people that do not pay their fares. Honor systems may work in some cities but Portland's Honor system needs to be investigated. I hope Phoenix doesn't allow what goes on here, and collects their fares.

[mikec34]

Originally Posted by nickw252

Agreed, they need to stop making cities for cars and start making them for people.

So beautifully said. Then we can consume less space, water, gas/energy, etc. It sounds marvelous, but it won't happen in our lifetime.

[nickw252]

Originally Posted by joninaz

And extended hours? The trains stop running hours before last call. One risks getting stuck downtown if not heading home early enough.

So you are suggesting driving home at closing time? Shouldn't people out drinking till 2AM be walking or taking a cab home anyways?

[nickw252]

Originally Posted by mikec34

So beautifully said. Then we can consume less space, water, gas/energy, etc. It sounds marvelous, but it won't happen in our lifetime.

Thanks, I wish I could claim it for myself but I have been influenced by James Howard Kunstler books, check them out

[mikec34]

Originally Posted by nickw252

Thanks, I wish I could claim it for myself but I have been influenced by James Howard Kunstler books, check them out

Well, you can keep the compliment for being honest.