What's going on with health care?

[Steerpike]

Originally Posted by applepick

If America had the same coverage as British, Japanese, & Chinese, we'd also have to wait much longer for a needed procedure and a doctor visit. It is already a few weeks or even months to see some specialists. With universal health care, it will be months to see a primary! And you will see your doctor for 1 minute instead of 10minutes that you enjoy now.

Quantity and quality usually have an inverse relationship. And seeing so many patients in US is impossible with all the documentation mandates that doctors' offices have to go through. Come 21% medicare cut, we'll add to the growing list of physicians dropping medicare and increase in days waiting for medicare patients. This is the beginning of the end. Welcome to socialized medicine.

Unfortunately, you are ignoring the true measure of effectiveness - 'wellness' coupled with cost per person covered. The very simple irrefutable fact is, people in Europe have fewer illnesses and at a lower dollar cost per person covered. This rather interesting Harvard BR article presents an interesting view. Essentially, the US pays the most and gets the least in return.

To those of you who worry about 'waiting longer' - have you thought about what you'd do if you lost your job (and thus your insurance)? Do you have a pre-existing condition that would cause the Insurance company to turn you down? Just how do you deal with an illness under those circumstances?

[algia]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Americans should have the same kind of coverage Germans, British, Canadian, Japanese, Chinese, every other first world nation has had for decades. People shouldn't even have to think about this crap. Get sick, go to the dr. NO BILLS! NO WORRIES! NO LINK TO EMPLOYMENT! If one sat up nights for months trying to think of a dumb way to provide health care, he would not conjure a system as ridiculous as one based on where one works like ours.

Access to health care should not be a job benefit. Vacations, company car, key to the executive rest room, yes. But health care? Change a job, change a doctor. Lose a job, lose health care. Get a raise, lose it to insurance deductions. Employer has a bad year, you lose all or part of your benefits. What a stupid, stupid system. The premise is so absurd that we can't fix it with a patch. We need to start over by separating employment and health care in the national psyche. I have no hope whatsoever that will happen. It would be easy to say we deserve what we have because we vote for the fools etc, but no people deserve the mess we have made of health care access in our country.

Honestly, anyone who has ever lived in another prosperous country and been under their health care system like I have would be in utter disbelief at how effed-up the US is in this area.

I could not agree more...... and also agree with whomever said that overweight/obese people should be taxed and insured individually (no offense) and not lumped along with the rest of us who don't have the need to empty grocery stores in one day! No one is forcing them (with a gun to their head) to eat and become obese like that so why should we pay for their lack of self control???

The reason people in Europe are healthier is Because
1. people KNOW MEASURE and
2. because the foods there are still not 100% tempered with for longer shelf life!
3. it is quality versus quantity
It's THAT simple.

Yesterday I went to the store looking for lunch items for my picky son and could NOT find anything healthy! everything had 28% or more sodium and God knows what other chemicals I don't know about........"Corporate America" has killed any hope to eat uncontaminated foods and that is the reason why people get fat and sick here.....we have "healthy food stores" that middle class people cannot afford! please explain that one to me!!!!!!!!!!

Again all this is thanks to being lazy and complacent about how things are done......."ohh, I'm too busy thinking about myself" to give a rats ass about anyone else.....that's the mentality that keeps things the way they are with no hope for a change for the better. LOOK at how much paper schools are wasting for example.....BECAUSE people refuse to use email or go "ohh we don't have a computer, or access to one" sorry I find that very hard to believe unless you live at the bottom of the Grand Canyon in a tent! That my friends is a simple change, like banks, electric companies, cable are now offering paperless statements, same deal, why do I need to be invaded with a stack of "notices" from the school instead of getting one email?........it starts with small things like this and goes form there, people are used to do nothing about anything and then complain that their insurance premium went up without notice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Steerpike]

My girlfriend makes a comfortable 6 figure income, and pays a lot of tax - over $20k per year, and has done for a long time. She has good insurance, as you'd expect from a good job. She is frugal and saves a lot - has over $500,000 in savings.

About 5 years ago she was diagnosed with breast cancer, and was treated. The costs were unbelievable - just one radiation treatment visit was something outrageous. She's been fine for the past 5 years, which is great.

Now, she's in her late 50s and was recently laid off. She's currently on COBRA but that runs out soon, and then she needs to find private insurance. Currently, no insurance company will touch her because she has a pre-existing condition. So she's facing a rather insecure future - if she were to have a recurrence of her illness, she could be faced with paying for treatment out of pocket. The $500,000 she has saved, over 30+ years of hard work, could very easily be used up with one battle with cancer. So then she'll be left with nothing to live on after all those years of hard work.

My point is really this - she's hard working, pays taxes without complaining, and doesn't generally expect 'handouts'. But something seems wrong with a system that allows you to become bankrupt even after working so hard - doing everything the 'American Dream' expects you to do.

Her hope is that medical reform occurs, and she can find some form of insurance to carry her through the next 6 years until Medicare kicks in for her. I hear that now, even the Republicans are saying that the 'pre-existing condition' rule is bad; but they have been in charge for the past 8 years and did precisely nothing about this issue.

[dano]

[My point is really this - she's hard working, pays taxes without complaining, and doesn't generally expect 'handouts'. But something seems wrong with a system that allows you to become bankrupt even after working so hard - doing everything the 'American Dream' expects you to do.

Her hope is that medical reform occurs, and she can find some form of insurance to carry her through the next 6 years until Medicare kicks in for her. I hear that now, even the Republicans are saying that the 'pre-existing condition' rule is bad; but they have been in charge for the past 8 years and did precisely nothing about this issue.[/quote]

Ok, then we tweak the rules so they cannot discriminate on "pre-existing". Charge these people alot more (say 1.5 times average) and slighty increase everyone else to pay for the increased risk/costs. Also tweak some other things like cross-state competition. And shame on Republicans for not doing these things when they were in office.

However, this thing that Obama is trying to pass is scary and I think is going to bankrupt the country. I just cannot support it.

[Journey2]

An interesting read, since I have experienced health care systems within Sweden, Asia and the UK. I am moving to AZ this year so health care provision for the family is an important concern. I can't really comment on the American system other than it must be very tough if one can't afford any insurance. I can however comment on the NHS. It was born from the idea that good healthcare should be available to all regardless of wealth. I still think the idea behind it is a good thing the problems today however come from a variety of sources. I and many people I know use the NHS, we get an appointment the same day and recieve treatment promptly, no complaints. However, the service does vary from county to county. Waiting lists do exist but that's not helped by NHS doctors working part time in the NHS and then privately to make extra bucks. Some counties will pay for IVF treatment for couples for example, others not, some pay for other drugs, others not.. it's a postcode lottery basically. The Welsh ALL get free prescription charges, not the case with the English, though children's prescriptions are always free and this is a major plus.
Management needs a GOOD shake up and finally resources are drained as the country is forced to care for healthcare of people who arrive with their families and don't contribute with taxes from any work.
When we were told about the cost of a health insurance plan I had no idea whether it's good, bad or indifferent, as it seems a lot when one is used to a 'free' system (obviously it's not free, but cheaper!)
Sweden taxes were a lot higher, but the services were of high standards, and with a population of 8/9 million, a much smaller scale population to worry about.

[dano]

The last thing we want to do is be like everyone else. I just don't buy the arguement. The U.S. has this thing called the Constitution. This has set us appart from the pack and has allowed the country to get to where it is at. No where does it say that we are entitled to health care or anything else for that matter other than a chance to be free to choose our way.

[Steerpike]

Originally Posted by Journey2

An interesting read, since I have experienced health care systems within Sweden, Asia and the UK. I am moving to AZ this year so health care provision for the family is an important concern. I can't really comment on the American system other than it must be very tough if one can't afford any insurance. I can however comment on the NHS. It was born from the idea that good healthcare should be available to all regardless of wealth. I still think the idea behind it is a good thing the problems today however come from a variety of sources. I and many people I know use the NHS, we get an appointment the same day and recieve treatment promptly, no complaints. However, the service does vary from county to county. Waiting lists do exist but that's not helped by NHS doctors working part time in the NHS and then privately to make extra bucks. Some counties will pay for IVF treatment for couples for example, others not, some pay for other drugs, others not.. it's a postcode lottery basically. The Welsh ALL get free prescription charges, not the case with the English, though children's prescriptions are always free and this is a major plus.
Management needs a GOOD shake up and finally resources are drained as the country is forced to care for healthcare of people who arrive with their families and don't contribute with taxes from any work.
When we were told about the cost of a health insurance plan I had no idea whether it's good, bad or indifferent, as it seems a lot when one is used to a 'free' system (obviously it's not free, but cheaper!)
Sweden taxes were a lot higher, but the services were of high standards, and with a population of 8/9 million, a much smaller scale population to worry about.

One thing to note, about the UK, is that no one is prevented from subscribing to private medical insurance (despite what one may hear on Faux Noise). My brother gets it through his company. Many people use it to 'queue jump' the NHS. The key thing is - the NHS is there as a safety net. In the current US debate, people are trying to suggest that a "public option" will ruin the private insurance companies - this is utter nonsense.