Important: Phoenix livability issues (Tucson, Scottsdale: low crime, neighborhoods, construction)

[Obamanation]

Happy Thanksgiving everyone! Ok so I have heard many times about the problem with air quality in the Valley. There supposedly exists a "Brown Cloud" that hangs over the metro, obstructs views and is unhealthy to breathe in. Also I've heard crime is on the high side, along with traffic.

Can anyone give me objective information on this? I may be young but these quality of life issues are very important to me.

[Finger Laker]

for a city of this size crime is pretty low, imo

most of it seems to be property crime or the typical drug related issues

while there are slums, gangs, etc that you can expect with any large city - it's not as prevelant as in other places

before here I lived in philadelphia - there were parts of that city that looked bombed out and were dangerous just to pass through ....... not the case with phoenix ........ i don't think i've felt unsafe once in the 6 years i've lived here

in the winter there is a noticeable brown cloud if you are at a height visible enough to get a view of the city - it's a whole bunch of things that make it up, but the reason why you see it has to with the inversion that frames it and then doesn't let it escape

there is air pollution for sure and ozone is an issue as well - the American Lung Association has Phoenix rated 9th worse in the nation for ozone

however, most rankings also have phoenix middle of the road when it comes to total pollution or "toxic city" type rankings

traffic can get pretty bad, but a lot of it depends on your individual circumstances ...... the city is massive and I think that is a hard thing for people to get their hands on

i would definitely recommend a visit - usually recommend coming in the summer, but being in FL i don't think you need a heat test

come in the winter - pollution is it's highest, inversions there worst, we have the most visitors this time of year and traffic is also at it's worse ....... drive around, go up south mountain - not only will you get to view the brown cloud, get a little bit of a sense of how vast the city is, but also get some really great scenery and a neat drive as well

[Peg Fife-Bell]

The brown cloud exists in the Phoenix metro area, just as it does in the Tampa area. Phenominal growth and traffic congestion have contributed to the air quality here, but also dust is a factor. The air does clear when the wind blows. When that happens, the views are spectacular from some of the mountains that surround the area.

Traffic is likely similar too, but I have no way of knowing since I haven't been in or lived in the Tampa area for 12 years. I've been a 'Valley of the Sun' resident that long.

There are certainly neighborhoods where crime is more prevelant than others, but I wouldn't say it's rampant in the metro area any more than it would be in the Tampa Bay area. Visit, look around and see where you might fit.

The difference between the two areas? You will be swapping 'moderate humid' summer temps in FL for 'dry hot' summer weather in the desert. It takes some adjusting to the dry heat just as it would if you were moving back to FL, it equals out. It's a matter of deciding which weather you would prefer. Humid or dry.

[Obamanation]

I am visiting a friend in Gilbert soon, and we will definitely Thelma and Louise it up around the Valley. Peg I must say there is no tangible cloud of pollution over Tampa, its air quality is above average. Since PHX is much larger than Tampa I expect some increase in overall problems but some things I heard worried me.

[Ponderosa]

The brown cloud is mostly dust and, to some extent, diesel soot. There's a lot of dust in a desert climate, but recent changes in construction practices, retirement of agriculture, and particulate collection on diesel vehicles should help over the years. More people though sends it the other way.

Crime is not an issue for most people living here. While there are many places I would not want to live, the suburban areas of Phoenix metro consistently rank among the lowest crime rate areas in the country. Gilbert, which you mentioned, is one of them. Even the bad parts here are not that bad in the sense that it is unsafe to drive through or shop in them.

As for traffic, it's rough during rush hours - this is a huge city. But outside of that you drive around at the limit on what is the smoothest, safest, and best looking urban freeway system in the US. Watch out for the traffic cams though.

[krock1dk]

You have every right to be concerend about the Valley's poor air quality. It comes mostly from the enormous number of cars--usually inhabited by one person--on the road. I heard recently that the Valley ranks #3 in number of days exceeded per year of exceeding maximum EPA levels. In other words, Phoenix has the thrid worst air of any metro area in the country. I BELIEVE IT. In the summer there is always a brown and orange cloud over the Valley. Its disgusting. According to the Places Rated Almanac of 2008, the Valley was ranked the 3rd worst large metro area to live for numerous reasons including bad air. Its just a fact. Dont shoot the messenger. I cant wait to move outta here.

[Steve-o]

I dont live in PHX, but it never fails.... everytime Im heading south on 17, you can see the haze over PHX, sometimes more serious than others, but its always there, and I visit quite frequently. You dont really notice it when youre on the ground in, say, Scottsdale, the skies look clear. But hike up Camelback and it becomes quite visible. I wouldnt worry about it.

[kdog]

Originally Posted by krock1dk

I heard recently that the Valley ranks #3 in number of days exceeded per year of exceeding maximum EPA levels. In other words, Phoenix has the thrid worst air of any metro area in the country.

"I heard, I heard, I heard..."

Well, you heard wrong according to the American Lung association. For Ozone pollution, Phoenix ranks 9th. For both short-term and year-round particulate pollution, Phoenix doesn't even appear on the top 25.

Source: Most Polluted U.S. Cities (http://www.stateoftheair.org/2009/city-rankings/polluted-cities-ozone.html - broken link)

[azdr0710]

many Western cities are built in basins that trap the pollution, especially in the winter with cold air "trapped" beneath warm air....wind does clear it out, as one here said....a metro area of 4+ million people will certainly have a pollution problem, but dust, fireplace soot contributes, also.......

early explorers in what is now the LA basin report that smoke from the many natives' fires created a brown cloud at a certain altitude

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by kdog

"I heard, I heard, I heard..."

Well, you heard wrong according to the American Lung association. For Ozone pollution, Phoenix ranks 9th. For both short-term and year-round particulate pollution, Phoenix doesn't even appear on the top 25.

Source: Most Polluted U.S. Cities (http://www.stateoftheair.org/2009/city-rankings/polluted-cities-ozone.html - broken link)

Thanks for the link. Just some more info from that link shows that the number of bad days for ozone pollution has declined significantly in Phoenix in the last 10 years, although it's flattened out in the last 2 or 3.

The long term trend for air pollution is that it has been on the decline in most places. I think it's fair to say we could still do better....but at least it's going in the right direction.

To the OP, from having lived in AZ (Tucson, but visiting Phoenix often enough) and from having been to Tampa Bay area and having a friend who lives there, I'd say that both areas have similar problems related to traffic. Crime is probably similar between the two areas as well. Not super high crime, but not low crime areas, either.

Both have inadequate mass transit although Phoenix at least has begun to put in a light rail system that is said to have exceeded expectations for ridership...but there's a long way to go before it's a comprehensive system.



Tampa Bay area probably has better air quality because of the frequent rain.