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1. New Yorkers have cars. This is why every major manufacturer including exotics have a dealership in manhattan. This is why traffic is snarled all the time, and this is why parking is $1200 a month.
2. The average NY's doesn't live in Manhattan, they live in Queens, Brooklyn, etc.
3. Phoenix is just like Detroit, the growth and boom were based on one industry, development.
4. No matter how hard you try Phoenix will not become urban. Intel will not move downtown, nor any other outlying company.
5. The current push towards downtown is an illusion created by developers believing that's what people want. Is there suddenly a bunch of new companies or companies relocating to downtown? Nope. So where are the tenants going to work? Does the developer envision filling a 20 story building with disenchanted suburbanites?
6. If you think building homes with the theory of "build it an they will come" is bad, wait to you see the result of developers doing the same with commercial properties (the Price Corridor in Chandler for example) According to Newsweek (and others) there's Trillions and Trillions of dollars of commercial property on the market that is in danger of foreclosure. Enough to make the housing crisis look like a joke. Enough to bankrupt 80% of the banks in the US. So trying to create an urban environment for the sake of doing so in a place it doesn't exist is as crazy, if not more so because of the costs, than aimless sprawl in the burbs.
7. Our economy will repeat this past cycle nationwide over and over again. It's the nature of becoming a service and consumer society. We don't make anything anymore except weapons and drugs.
8. Phoenix will not be like NY, SF, or Chicago...ever. It will always remain in business a tertiary city following the leaders (NY, SF, etc) and the second level (Atlanta, Dallas, Miami, Seattle) We are a city of retail, resorts, and bank branches. Takeout semi conductors and tell me what is produced in Phoenix?
"Takeout semi conductors and tell me what is produced in Phoenix?"
From Wikipedia:
"Phoenix is currently home to seven Fortune 1000 companies: waste management company Allied Waste, electronics corporation Avnet, Apollo Group (which operates the University of Phoenix), mining company Freeport-McMoRan (recently merged with Phoenix based Phelps Dodge), retailer PetSmart, energy supplier Pinnacle West and retailer CSK Auto. Honeywell's Aerospace division is headquartered in Phoenix, and the valley hosts many of their avionics and mechanical facilities. Intel has one of their largest sites here, employing about 10,000 employees and 3 chip manufacturing fabs, including the $3 billion state-of-the-art 300 mm and 45 nm Fab 32. American Express hosts their financial transactions, customer information, and their entire website in Phoenix. The city is also home to the headquarters of U-HAUL International, a rental company and moving supply store, as well Best Western, a hotel chain. Mesa Air Group, a regional airline group, is headquartered in Phoenix.
"The military has a significant presence in Phoenix with Luke Air Force Base located in the western suburbs."
"As for me, when I see ground breaking, I get a little excited as to what might be coming, and when I see the plaza turn out to be a carbon copy of the very same thing 5 minutes down the road, I'm disappointed and disgusted. Thats just me."
You're an entrepreneur, why not focus that disappointment and disgust towards coming up with something that is not "a carbon copy" and "the very same thing [as] 5 minutes down the road"? Sounds like an opportunity, if you ask me.
You actually hit the nail on the head as to where my frustration comes from. Do you really think an average to upper middle class family person can compete for retail space with Wal-Mart, Ross, Bed Bath Beyond, etc. The usual motley crue? You have to be a millionaire already and not flinch if you lose 500k+ on a whim just for startup.
About 10 years ago, I looked at it as an opportunity but the pricing structure was only affordable by mega corporate franchises. They are built this way to prevent any local competition. Look around. How many "entrepreneurs" do you see succeeding in a local plaza?
So not only do I feel locked out of any commercial plaza, I also feel everyone else is and its why there is no real variety available to anyone.
"You actually hit the nail on the head as to where my frustration comes from. Do you really think an average to upper middle class family person can compete for retail space with Wal-Mart, Ross, Bed Bath Beyond, etc."
You should look again, because I've seen at least three different brand-new "strip malls" offering 1 year free lease just to get somebody--anybody--in there. If you've got an original idea, now's your chance, and the only thing holding you back is you.
"and its why there is no real variety available to anyone."
Thinking about this more, I've actually found there to be a ton of veriety. There are so many great restaurants that I doubt I'll ever get to them all, so many different furniture and "home" stores that I'll likely never visit them all, so many specialty shops that I can buy pretty much anything I want (if I've got the money). I'm not sure what more could be added.
But, like I said, if you've got an original idea, this may be the best opportunity to make something of that idea.
"Phoenix is currently home to seven Fortune 1000 companies"
Wow that's pathetic, Toledo, OH, a city less than 1/5th the size of Phoenix is home to three Fortune 500 companies (Phoenix apparently has none). Fortune 1000 is smaller than Fortune 500. Phoenix most definitely needs to diversify it's economy if it doesn't want to be the next Detroit. The housing boom clearly can't last forever.
"You actually hit the nail on the head as to where my frustration comes from. Do you really think an average to upper middle class family person can compete for retail space with Wal-Mart, Ross, Bed Bath Beyond, etc."
You should look again, because I've seen at least three different brand-new "strip malls" offering 1 year free lease just to get somebody--anybody--in there. If you've got an original idea, now's your chance, and the only thing holding you back is you.
"and its why there is no real variety available to anyone."
Thinking about this more, I've actually found there to be a ton of veriety. There are so many great restaurants that I doubt I'll ever get to them all, so many different furniture and "home" stores that I'll likely never visit them all, so many specialty shops that I can buy pretty much anything I want (if I've got the money). I'm not sure what more could be added.
But, like I said, if you've got an original idea, this may be the best opportunity to make something of that idea.
Sounds boring. Furniture & Home stores? Snooze. I can't think of a worse way to spend a day besides shopping for garbage to clutter my home with. We are all set up in that department anyhow.
Restaurants in suburbia? Corporate Chain restaurants are not great by any stretch. You have to drive far out of the suburbs to have any type of unique experience, period. I am not sure how long you have lived here, but I've been here a while and have been to all of the nearby restaurants so many times, I can taste them without even visiting.
I've yet to spot a free 1 yr lease anywhere, but if you could point me in the direction of a plaza where you have seen this, I would be interested. Thanks for the tip on that one.
"Toledo, OH, a city less than 1/5th the size of Phoenix is home to three Fortune 500 companies (Phoenix apparently has none)."
I guess you didn't open up the link I posted, which claims Phoenix metro has 5 Fortune 500 companies, and 6 Fortune 1000 companies.
"Sounds boring. Furniture & Home stores? Snooze. I can't think of a worse way to spend a day besides shopping for garbage to clutter my home with. We are all set up in that department anyhow."
Different strokes for different folks, I guess. What businesses would you like to see around?
"Restaurants in suburbia? Corporate Chain restaurants are not great by any stretch. You have to drive far out of the suburbs to have any type of unique experience, period."
Really? First, not all chain restaurants are bad (although many of them are). Second, there are plenty of quality non-chain restaurants in the suburbs. Should we start a new thread?
"I've yet to spot a free 1 yr lease anywhere, but if you could point me in the direction of a plaza where you have seen this, I would be interested. Thanks for the tip on that one."
Two are in Goodyear, one in Surprise and one in Buckeye, although I think one may have been a free 6-month lease. Whenever I go by one next, I'll see if I can write down the contact information and pass it along. My suggestion is to look at the ones near where you live (and/or where you'd like your proposed business to be located) that have available space, and call the "for more information" number.
"Toledo, OH, a city less than 1/5th the size of Phoenix is home to three Fortune 500 companies (Phoenix apparently has none)."
I guess you didn't open up the link I posted, which claims Phoenix metro has 5 Fortune 500 companies, and 6 Fortune 1000 companies.
"Sounds boring. Furniture & Home stores? Snooze. I can't think of a worse way to spend a day besides shopping for garbage to clutter my home with. We are all set up in that department anyhow."
Different strokes for different folks, I guess. What businesses would you like to see around?
"Restaurants in suburbia? Corporate Chain restaurants are not great by any stretch. You have to drive far out of the suburbs to have any type of unique experience, period."
Really? First, not all chain restaurants are bad (although many of them are). Second, there are plenty of quality non-chain restaurants in the suburbs. Should we start a new thread?
"I've yet to spot a free 1 yr lease anywhere, but if you could point me in the direction of a plaza where you have seen this, I would be interested. Thanks for the tip on that one."
Two are in Goodyear, one in Surprise and one in Buckeye, although I think one may have been a free 6-month lease. Whenever I go by one next, I'll see if I can write down the contact information and pass it along. My suggestion is to look at the ones near where you live (and/or where you'd like your proposed business to be located) that have available space, and call the "for more information" number.
I just took a drive by some plazas this afternoon in North Peoria and they are all astronomical leases with 5 year minimums. No free rent. So everything near me is out of the question. Not interested in other areas really.
Its ok about the restaurants, I'm not trying to attack the place you love. Its just my position they could do better, but choose not to, and if they continue with this trend, its not helping anyone.
Its ok about the restaurants, I'm not trying to attack the place you love. Its just my position they could do better, but choose not to, and if they continue with this trend, its not helping anyone.
I love that line in the TV show Weeds when Kevin Nealon says "I wouldn't take a dump in the Olive Garden."
Quote:
Doug: I tried to spread the word. I eat here every day - invited people. Oh, it's too ethnic. Oh, it's it's it's too spicy. Oh, those people don't wash their hands. What the **** is wrong with these morons who'll go to... wait an hour to in line for some ****in' crappy Olive Garden and let a treasure like this go out of business? I can't take it.
Nancy: Doug, why are we here?
Doug: Did you taste the Saag Aloo? It's to die for and then be re-incarnated and then die again. Why aren't you eating?
Nancy: I told you I ate already.
Doug: Where?
Nancy: The Olive Garden
Doug: I wouldn't take a dump in the Olive Garden.
Nancy: I like the hot artichoke spinach dip.
Doug: I can't even look at you.
Nancy: OK, enough, enough. I'm sure the Saag Aloo is is is delicious. (takes a taste of it with her finger) Wow, that's incredible.
Doug: Tell me that doesn't kick your artichoke dips ass! [edit]
I also try to avoid chain restaurants as much as possible. I prefer to support local folks and local economies, especially when traveling, it's great to get a taste of different areas.
First, not all chain restaurants are bad (although many of them are). Second, there are plenty of quality non-chain restaurants in the suburbs. Should we start a new thread?
Sure, I'd be interested in a new thread discussing the merits of supporting local businesses and restaurants over major chains and big-box stores.
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