House Flipper returning - how is the real estate market? (Winkelman: fit in, sale)

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Agreed Winkleman. NAR called it wrong time and time again. but I think they knew that the market was a lot sicker than they led onto. And some RE agents on this board were "filling their pipeline" attempting to convince people that it WAS a great time to buy as the market came crashing down month after month. That is what I call "commision breath" (the ends justify the means). The bottom line is while it was coming down, these agents were either ignorant or unethical. Possibly a little of both. Now. MANY agents told it straight. They said "I have no idea" or told them that they are are not an investment consultant.

But as history proved, a 6 week real estate night class didn't give them anymore insight than you or I. If someone assumes that thier craft in real estate is too difficult for another person to grasp, I for one call them out on it.

To be clear, I do like to read peoples honest opinions and think there is real value in RE professionals posting on these boards. Again, this last point is meant to be global and is not intended to be specific.

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by Beena

I would like to propose February as "short post month".

If you find yourself to be a wordy sumabish, how bout you don't post until March?

How 'bout you post something useful for a change, instead of just posting attacks?

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

Agreed Winkleman. NAR called it wrong time and time again. but I think they knew that the market was a lot sicker than they led onto. And some RE agents on this board were "filling their pipeline" attempting to convince people that it WAS a great time to buy as the market came crashing down month after month. That is what I call "commision breath" (the ends justify the means). The bottom line is while it was coming down, these agents were either ignorant or unethical. Possibly a little of both. Now. MANY agents told it straight. They said "I have no idea" or told them that they are are not an investment consultant.

But as history proved, a 6 week real estate night class didn't give them anymore insight than you or I. If someone assumes that thier craft in real estate is too difficult for another person to grasp, I for one call them out on it.

To be clear, I do like to read peoples honest opinions and think there is real value in RE professionals posting on these boards. Again, this last point is meant to be global and is not intended to be specific.

Why do you insist on taking a thread that is about whether the market is good for an investor to come here to get back into investing, and turn it into realtor bashing?

I don't care whether you're referring to me, or "global" as you put it, calling realtors ignorant and unethical it is realtor bashing and is adding nothing to the topic of the thread.

If you want to bash realtors then start your own thread.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Bill. Like many threads that run their course they go a different direction. The last several posts discussed why some people "realtor bash" so I explained my point of view. I suppose some people in this thread were "bank bashing" or "Wall Street Bashing". In fact, Winkleman mentioned it wasn't just realtors saying buy-buy-buy as the market crashed (it was NAR). I agree.

I don't have one bad thing to say about your profession. I just forked over $26K last week for a fee for service (a.k.a. commission) and felt it was fair. I do like to comment to help less saavy "investors" understand where someones motivation could be. I question any agent who would debate intensely on a forum explaining why it was a great time to buy all the way down the crash. The question that begs to be answered is: were they ignorant arguing why it was a great time to buy or simply unethical?? I could change the terminology to say: the RE agent was "misinformed" because they got their info from NAR or just "filling the pipeline" to feed there family. In the end, I think the 1st description is more accurate. I am certainly not bashing your profession. You are assuming again because I have a lot of respect for people who go about it the right way. That includes bankers, loan officers, rehabbers etc.

[Winkelman]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

Agreed Winkleman. NAR called it wrong time and time again. but I think they knew that the market was a lot sicker than they led onto. And some RE agents on this board were "filling their pipeline" attempting to convince people that it WAS a great time to buy as the market came crashing down month after month. That is what I call "commision breath" (the ends justify the means). The bottom line is while it was coming down, these agents were either ignorant or unethical. Possibly a little of both. Now. MANY agents told it straight. They said "I have no idea" or told them that they are are not an investment consultant.

But as history proved, a 6 week real estate night class didn't give them anymore insight than you or I. If someone assumes that thier craft in real estate is too difficult for another person to grasp, I for one call them out on it.

To be clear, I do like to read peoples honest opinions and think there is real value in RE professionals posting on these boards. Again, this last point is meant to be global and is not intended to be specific.

It takes a lot more training and education to work in a nail salon than it does to sell houses. I completed the courses and passed the exam to become an agent in Arizona and California but was advised by my attorney not to become an agent for disclosure reasons. Just easier to buy and sell houses without having to first disclose I am a real estate agent. It spooks people.

From time to time I look at ziprealty for houses in different markets. I got a call from an RE agent in Miami after I signed up in that market. This was while the market there was in free fall. The agent was totally trying to convince me it was the time to buy. Crazy stuff.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Winkleman. I agree what you are saying. In 2002-2005 I bought and sold around 15 transactions. I was subdividing lakeshore, remodleing a plain home to feel like a cabin, working on the shoreline etc. I only worked with properties on water.

If I was a RE agent, people would view my buying and selling as "for profit only" versus actually adding some value. Hence, I decided to pass on becoming an RE agent which in theory would "save" the 3%. Plus, the local players in these small markets loved to double dip (full commission) by lining me up with the opportunities before they hit MLS. If I was an RE agent and found the deals, it would be viewed as "taking advantage" of the opportunity. I had my check book in hand and could pull the trigger when I knew there was money to be made. Fun times...

Re: your other topic. There are too many people in sales that only care about lining their pocket. Just go back to 2007 and 2008 on this very forum and read what some of the RE "experts" were saying. Now they wonder why they catch some heat from time to time when they run into people with accurate memories. Go figure...

[Captain Bill]

=MN-Born-n-Raised;12904261 Bill. There you go again; you assume. Just because I said that a company was going to drive by to get pictures of the house (which is part of their service) doesn't mean that I was saying you don't need to get into a home before you buy.

But you didn't say that did you? You only stated drive-by, which is what they do. Now how do you suggest people get in the houses?

=MN-Born-n-Raised]You could have taken about 1500 words out of your 1600 word essay ...

Count again. My "essay" was 275 words.

$3000 service takes care of a majority of the hassle of buying at an auction but it is still a lot of work. But don't forget, without getting into the home, there are HUGE rsk. Understanding the condition of the home has to be done quickly."

Excellent!!!

Why didn’t you say that in your first or second post?

Instead you took offense at my advice to readers, choosing to bash me because I'm a realtor.

And you still didn't mention risk.

quote=MN-Born-n-Raised]----No one needed your information warning about foundation cracks, meth labs, mold issues, etc. That goes without saying.

How do you know no one needed the information?

You can call me a "commish breath realtor", "ignorant or unethical or both" --- as you have been doing, and attempting to disguise it as "global".

However, I work with buyers all the time and I assure you the average home buyer, especially a first time home buyer, has no clue about the issues I listed (and more).

You may be a super savvy investor, a "fast study, and can fast become a shark" (your words) and have all those answers, but don't "assume" everyone else does.

as history proved, a 6 week real estate night class didn't give them anymore insight than you or I. If someone assumes that thier craft in real estate is too difficult for another person to grasp, I for one call them out on it.

Agreed. Schools teach to pass the exam. They inform students this during the course and reinforce the need for continuing education.

And when I see someone who doesn't have experience in an arena, giving the impression that an auction source is a cakewalk, without listing the pitfalls, I'm going to list them.

I'm not telling people to avoid trustee sales. I'm saying get educated first. There are too many ways to get burned, with no recourse.

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by Winkelman

It takes a lot more training and education to work in a nail salon than it does to sell houses.

I see it differently.

It takes a lot more training and education to work in a nail salon than it does to get a real estate license.

It takes a lot more training and education to be successful in the real estate business than it does to work in a nail salon.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Here is the bottom line Bill. Your 275 word bolded word essay was an attempt to show that you can guild people though the "sharks" and that they need you. You were attempting to "fill the pipeline" (your words not mine).

To hide from the obvious fact that you are sending up smoke signals, you continue to let people know every 5th post that you only work with a lucky 4 people at a time. Too funny.

God forbid if I mentioned that there is an option that will do a lot of the legwork before the auction. Call me a skeptic but that puts this service in direct competition of what you do. If you wrote a quick paragraph like I suggested above then I wouldn't of said a word. even if your post came from the heart that is one thing. But when I'm being lectured about meth homes, mold issues, cracked foundations etc for your marketing purposes I'm not fond of it. I suppose I should have thinker skin but I smelt the desire for commission.

Go ahead. Market away! Just don't be in people's faces and I suspect the Beena's of the world will leave you alone. It's not because you are a realtor. Really! I've posted that I appreciate Phoenixxx objectivity. What does she do for a living??? Yep, she sells homes. Have you scene anybody go after her??? I have not.

As Paul Harvey once said, "now you know the rest of the story". Good Day!

[Winkelman]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

I see it differently.

It takes a lot more training and education to work in a nail salon than it does to get a real estate license.

It takes a lot more training and education to be successful in the real estate business than it does to work in a nail salon.

I disagree. Real Estate is cyclical. Feast and Famine. The nail salon business provides a service that many women and some men use on a regular basis regardless of economic conditions.

The biggest factor for one to be successful selling houses is that market conditions have to be conductive for selling houses. When the market is red hot, most active RE Agents will have success. When it is weak a very small percentage are successful. Bill, you are involved in more areas than just RE sales. Obviously just selling houses is not enough even for you.

Perhaps there is a reason states require much more expertise on the nail business compared to selling houses. Perhaps there is more skill needed in the nail business, in selling houses its timing and location.