The Perils of Taking Photos in Public (how would you have reacted?) (lens, cameras)

[TOkidd]

Hello photography forum people. I am a member of this site, living just outside Toronto presently and I love taking pitures of the city - mostly of historical buildings and urband landscapes, but also shots of city life when it's possible.

Yesterday I decided to take some pictures of the neighbourhood I grew up in, mostly just to run my camera through its paces, but also to try and document some of the local landmarks. I walked up my street, into a ravine, down through a pedestrian underpass, and up to the old elementary school that I used to attend during my childhood. At the elementary school, there was a young family playing basketball and baseball, and I studiously avoided them when I was taking closeups of the school, ensuring none of them where in my shots, knowing that people assume anyone with a camera these days is up to no good, especially when there afre children around - thank you for that, cable television Because the kids were playing all around the back of the school, I wasn't able to take any closeups of that part because I know how touchy people are with cameras around kids, even though they are in a public place and have no right to privacy unless I plan on publishing the photos. Still, I didn't want the ttrouble.

Anyways, I walked about half the length of a football field away from the school, way out into a field and far from the family to get some wide angle shots of the entire building and surrounding landscape. So I started snapping away, messing with aperture and shutter speed and film speed, trying to achieve different effects and seeing which setting was best for what I liked. At this point I was so far from the kids that they look like little unrecognizable shadows in the photos I took, identifiable as people - maybe even children - but too far off for any of their features to be distinguished. All of a sudden, from a distance of about 50 or 60 meters, I hear someone yelling,

"Hey!"
I don't respond, concentrating on my viewfinder and screwing around with my settings. But again,
"Hey!"
"Hey!"
"Yo!"
Now getting louder and louder, but no one has approached me so I really have no idea it's me that's being hollered at.
"Hey you!"
"Hey you, with the camera!"
I look up and see a burly young guy with a basketball looking in my direction. I realize they're talking to me (they meaning him, his wife, and the kids who range in age from about 9 to 14. They're all hollering at me by this point to get my attention, and everyone in the area - it's a very public area with paths, parks, housing complexes, etc. - has stopped and is staring at me.)
"Hey, why are you taking pictures of children!" His voice is aggressive and belligerent. I ignore him. He comes closer.
"Hey, yo! Why are you taking pictures!" He hollers at me again. No everyone in the area is watching and listening and I suddenly get very pissed that this guy is confronting me for doing nothing wrong, making me feel like some sort of creep in front of an audience. I've had people in the city ask me before why I was taking pictures of their house, or what I was taking pictures of, but they approached me politely, without aggression or trying to make a scene, and I politely explained that I am an amateur photographer who photographs old architecture, buildings, streetscapes, and snaps of city life. I was polie with them and no one has ever objected. But with the way this guy has approached me, he's not getting a polite explanation. I'm angry.
"Hey, why are you playing basketball?" I ask him. He looks surprised, stares down at the basketball in his arm.
"Because people who play basketball make me suspicious," I continue, "and since you're so concerned about what I'm doing, I was holding my tongue to be polite, but now I have to be honest - I'm a little concerned about what you're doing." I turn to his family. "Who are these people you're with and how do you know them? Are these your children? Are they here under duress?"
The guy is totally flabbergasted. He doesn't know what to say. Finally, he remembers his concern.
"Yo, I just want to know why you're taking pictures around children. Like, why do you want to photograph kids?"
"Well, first of all this is a public place and I can photograph whoever I like, and second of all I'm not taking photos of children - I'm taking pictures of my old school and they're in the way. Maybe you could ask them to move so I can get a decent shot. Because I would never ask y'all to move, because this is a public place and you're not doing anything wrong, so why would I bother you and try and tell you that I didn't like what you were doing. Because that's exactly what you're doing to me."
"I just don't feel comfortable with people taking pictures around children."
"Well, I don't feel comfortable with people telling me that I can't engage in a harmless activity in public. If they're your children and you feel that way, take them home."
Now the guy completely backs off and walks away, defeated. But his wife isn't done yet and decides to get involved. Of course, by this point there's a crowd of people watching and all the kids are yelling at me, calling me names, but they're just kids so I ignore them.
"We're just protecting the children," she yells at me.
"Well, I was no where near your children, so what are you protecting them from?"
"I don't know what kind of pictures you're taking."
"Well, come over here and I'll show you every one of my picutres. You can judge for yourself." She says nothing. As I walk away to shoot somewhere else, I hear someone yell at me from behind.
"You should ask permission."
"Did you have to ask permission to be here? This is a public place and don't need anyone's permission to take photos."

I walked away and went and took more photos.

So, what do you think? Did I overreact? Have you had this happen to you? How did you react?

Again, I've often had people politely inquire about my picture-taking if it was near their house or something, but they've always been discreet and polite. This guy was loud and confrontational and rude and seemed to want an audience. I felt insulted and offended by his ignorant behavior and wanted to put him in his place.

Do you think my response was correct?

[EinsteinsGhost]

I have been a volunteer photographer on a few occasions, and usually seek permission before taking photographs. I have always wondered about issues with the typical "Street Photography" however, which I have not engaged in, focused on specific people.

[TOkidd]

I would certaily seek permission if I were takin photos of the children or where the children's faces were discernible, but taking photos from close to 200 feet away from any children, in a publlic place, I felt no obligation to ask permission.

[PA2UK]

But with the way this guy has approached me, he's not getting a polite explanation. I'm angry.

I think that was risky - in this case, the guy might have backed down but had it been someone else, responding with anger may have only escalated his emotional level further. It could have gotten physical, you could have gotten your camera smashed, etc Your anger is understandable, it would have peeved me off too, but I would have tried to remain calm.

In the future, you may want to not ask permission but merely let people know what you're doing ahead of time. Maybe next time just walk up to the playground and announce "I will be taking some photographs of the school building and it's possible some of you may wind up in the shot - while I don't think you'll be recognizable at this distance, if you don't wish for you or your children to be in the shot, please move aside. I'll only be a few minutes and try not to hold you up. Thanks." That way, they are aware of what you're doing upfront and might feel more comfortable. Also, for the professionals, I would offer them some business cards, not to drum up business but just so they can check out your website and feel comfortable knowing that you are a professional and have nothing to hide.

I think male photographers probably get the worst end of this stick. I've never had anyone approach me but I am a small, 5ft/100lbs woman. I do know a female photographer who was aggressively accused by a mother in a park while she was clearly taking portraits of a client and the children weren't even in the background - but that's the only time I've heard about a female being approached like this.

[TOkidd]

Originally Posted by PA2UK

I think that was risky - in this case, the guy might have backed down but had it been someone else, responding with anger may have only escalated his emotional level further. It could have gotten physical, you could have gotten your camera smashed, etc Your anger is understandable, it would have peeved me off too, but I would have tried to remain calm.

In the future, you may want to not ask permission but merely let people know what you're doing ahead of time. Maybe next time just walk up to the playground and announce "I will be taking some photographs of the school building and it's possible some of you may wind up in the shot - while I don't think you'll be recognizable at this distance, if you don't wish for you or your children to be in the shot, please move aside. I'll only be a few minutes and try not to hold you up. Thanks." That way, they are aware of what you're doing upfront and might feel more comfortable. Also, for the professionals, I would offer them some business cards, not to drum up business but just so they can check out your website and feel comfortable knowing that you are a professional and have nothing to hide.

I think male photographers probably get the worst end of this stick. I've never had anyone approach me but I am a small, 5ft/100lbs woman. I do know a female photographer who was aggressively accused by a mother in a park while she was clearly taking portraits of a client and the children weren't even in the background - but that's the only time I've heard about a female being approached like this.

Thank-you for the advice PATUK. I will try your strategy in the future.

I am simply wondering if other amateur and professional photogrophers who work mostly in busy public places have had some had people confront you aggressively when you were taking photos in public (consider that i was 50+ yeard from any children and did not have a telephoto lens.

[WFW&P]

I would have responded politely yet firmly what I was doing & why. Had the parent(s) continued with their attitude about people taking photos of their kids they would have been on the receiving end of some pretty snarky retorts.

[kdog]

I would have been really tempted to say something along these lines:

"I wasn't taking pictures of your kids, I'm taking picture of the school. But if I were taking pictures of your kids, that would be perfectly legal since this is public property. If you interfere with me in any way, you will be the law breaker here and I will report you to the authorities. Do we need to call the police and sort this out?"

I would also hand them a copy with this, which I recommend that every photographer keep in their camera bag for such occasions. Bert P. Krages Attorney at Law Photographer's Rights Page

[PA2UK]

Originally Posted by TOkidd

Thank-you for the advice PATUK. I will try your strategy in the future.

I am simply wondering if other amateur and professional photogrophers who work mostly in busy public places have had some had people confront you aggressively when you were taking photos in public (consider that i was 50+ yeard from any children and did not have a telephoto lens.

Yeah, I assumed you were using a wide angle lens but anyone not knowledgeable about photographic equipment probably would not understand this. They probably just saw a man on his own milling about a school and taking pictures where children were playing. Their concern is understandable, even if their approach to dealing with it was inappropriate.

[Sweetbottoms]

I would not seek permission nor would I give an explanation. Public property is public property and I don't go around telling everyone I why I'm doing what I'm doing. If he had approached me I would have told him if he doesn't like it move, otherwise mind his beezwax. I do however ask permission when not in public or if I'm directly taking a picture of a specific person or they are close to me. From that far away though, uh no.

[PhotoProIP]

"Hey, why are you taking pictures of children!" His voice is aggressive and belligerent. I ignore him. He comes closer.

Of course, by this point there's a crowd of people watching and all the kids are yelling at me, calling me names, but they're just kids so I ignore them.

Why? and Why? If you weren't doing anything wrong why would you ignore them? and why would you ignore kids? they are people too? next time if there is someone blocking your view do yourself, and others a major favor and be polite enough to ask them to move over, or ask them if they're OK with you taking pictures. That was not Disney World where everyone expects to be in someone's picture considering the dynamics of that theme park. (Or any other theme park for that matter). I too would be disturbed if I saw someone taking pictures of my kids even from afar. There are way too many perverts out there today.