True Cost of Living (Pittsburgh, Fox Chapel: insurance, mortgage, buying a home)

[Lobick]

This link is for a chart of property tax as a percentage of income by county:

Table: Who Pays America's Highest Property Taxes? - Forbes.com

The data is nearly 4 years old, so that's somewhat problematic, but I think it provides some context to this discussion.

Pittsburgh (Allegheny County) would still suffer in this comparison due to the larger than average population of elderly people but with Allegheny County at #127 (of 788) I don't think you could say that our property tax burden is somehow an outlier, especially amongst northern, urban counties.

There are, no doubt, other pertinent considerations when assessing this topic, but to me at least, the knee jerk "we pay too much in taxes" arguments get tiresome without any context.

[gg]

Originally Posted by Lobick

This link is for a chart of property tax as a percentage of income by county:

Table: Who Pays America's Highest Property Taxes? - Forbes.com

The data is nearly 4 years old, so that's somewhat problematic, but I think it provides some context to this discussion.

Pittsburgh (Allegheny County) would still suffer in this comparison due to the larger than average population of elderly people but with Allegheny County at #127 (of 788) I don't think you could say that our property tax burden is somehow an outlier, especially amongst northern, urban counties.

There are, no doubt, other pertinent considerations when assessing this topic, but to me at least, the knee jerk "we pay too much in taxes" arguments get tiresome without any context.

I think it is hard to compare Pittsburgh in some ways because the area has some areas that are worth pennies. I mean I was looking in Millvale yesterday and there were homes that were livable for under $25K. One was under $20K. Then you can travel less than a mile and be in a home that is $500K. Find that in NJ or that whole region. You can live in Sharpsburg for under $30K without problem. Same school district as places that are over $3million. Pittsburgh is an interesting place, but hard to compare. If you live in a pretty nice area, you have to pick up the massive slack due to how cheap some areas might be. Imagine how much more tax Fox Chapel pays compared to Sharpsburg. I don't know if there are places like that in NJ. I doubt it due to supply and demand.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Lobick

Pittsburgh (Allegheny County) would still suffer in this comparison due to the larger than average population of elderly people but with Allegheny County at #127 (of 788) I don't think you could say that our property tax burden is somehow an outlier, especially amongst northern, urban counties.

Correct. It is a tough message for some to accept, but our lower property values mean our property taxes as a percentage of income are more or less typical for a larger urban area.

[Picksburg Stillers]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

I'm not vouching for its accuracy but here is a page gauging median income with cost of living for US metro areas.

True Cost of Living

Unfortunately, Pittsburgh scores very low, #40. About the same with Buffalo and Cleveland. Cincinnati surprisingly is #8 with Atlanta at #1, Indianapolis #2, and St. Louis #3. Even Philly comes in at #14 and Chicago, Boston, and New York score better.

The cost-of-living is wrong for New York. According to his source, Kiplinger's, the cost-of-living in New York is 400, or 4.0 for the purpose of the author's calculation, not 121, which would give New York an adjusted median household income of $15,241. Ouch.

[gg]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Correct. It is a tough message for some to accept, but our lower property values mean our property taxes as a percentage of income are more or less typical for a larger urban area.

Wilkinsburg might have low property values, but if you ever get out to places like Shadyside, Squirrel Hill and Fox Chapel, you might find there to be VERY expensive homes that have to pay the brunt of the burden to make up for the poor neighborhoods that kill the system. I suspect most Squirrel Hill residents are paying over $1000 a month. Fox Chapel would be worse than that of course.

I am not sure if you can see beyond your own situation? Many people have kids and want to live in areas that have good schools. It is VERY expensive to do so. Some single childless people can buy a shack in a fringe area or whatever and live cheap. Try to think of people that have kids for a change.

The taxes in Pittsburgh are ridiculous, unless you live in the many undesirable areas that pull everyone's taxes up in the nice places. If you live in a nice part of town, you are making up for cheap areas 10 fold. Get out and look around sometimes, or if you want to just hang out on the computer, look at the tax records. It is scary how much some people pay. Taxes are throwing money away. You never get all that back. I realize that you must be paying pennies, but move to Squirrel Hill and find out what many people have to deal with.

[jimmyev]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Wilkinsburg might have low property values, but if you ever get out to places like Shadyside, Squirrel Hill and Fox Chapel, you might find there to be VERY expensive homes that have to pay the brunt of the burden to make up for the poor neighborhoods that kill the system. I suspect most Squirrel Hill residents are paying over $1000 a month. Fox Chapel would be worse than that of course.

I am not sure if you can see beyond your own situation? Many people have kids and want to live in areas that have good schools. It is VERY expensive to do so. Some single childless people can buy a shack in a fringe area or whatever and live cheap. Try to think of people that have kids for a change.

The taxes in Pittsburgh are ridiculous, unless you live in the many undesirable areas that pull everyone's taxes up in the nice places. If you live in a nice part of town, you are making up for cheap areas 10 fold. Get out and look around sometimes, or if you want to just hang out on the computer, look at the tax records. It is scary how much some people pay. Taxes are throwing money away. You never get all that back. I realize that you must be paying pennies, but move to Squirrel Hill and find out what many people have to deal with.

It's fairly simple. If pretentious people want to live in pretentious neighborhoods they can pay pretentious property taxes.

[gg]

Originally Posted by jimmyev

It's fairly simple. If pretentious people want to live in pretentious neighborhoods they can pay pretentious property taxes.

Easy for single people without children to say. I don't want to live next to section 8 and send my kid to Schenley. I think the cost of living in Pittsburgh is high if you want to live in a nice area that doesn't have litter in every square inch. Good for you that you have no kids.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Easy for single people without children to say. I don't want to live next to section 8 and send my kid to Schenley. I think the cost of living in Pittsburgh is high if you want to live in a nice area that doesn't have litter in every square inch. Good for you that you have no kids.

To each her or his own I suppose. My partner and I will likely adopt children someday, and the suburbs are NOT in our future. I'd prefer to raise them potentially right here in Polish Hill. We could walk down to The Strip District with them, walk to Klavon's for ice cream, be in close proximity to the museums, the zoo/aquarium, the aviary, the Cultural District, etc. I deliver frequently to Fox Chapel and always wonder how people can walk there with no sidewalks?

[Heidi60]

Remember, those numbers are from 2009. Anyone have current numbers?

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Wilkinsburg might have low property values, but if you ever get out to places like Shadyside, Squirrel Hill and Fox Chapel, you might find there to be VERY expensive homes that have to pay the brunt of the burden to make up for the poor neighborhoods that kill the system. I suspect most Squirrel Hill residents are paying over $1000 a month. Fox Chapel would be worse than that of course.

Again, these places would be WAY more expensive in most cities. People with very high incomes in Pittsburgh are still getting bargains on their housing--they are just buying very, very nice homes in very nice neighborhoods.

Many people have kids and want to live in areas that have good schools. It is VERY expensive to do so. Some single childless people can buy a shack in a fringe area or whatever and live cheap. Try to think of people that have kids for a change.

This is completely false. There are in fact many reasonable areas within good school districts, and in fact you know darn well that is true in the Fox Chapel district. Of course if you want a very nice home in a very nice part of a very good school district, THEN it will cost you a decent amount--but again, considerably less than a comparable home would cost you in most cities.

The taxes in Pittsburgh are ridiculous, unless you live in the many undesirable areas that pull everyone's taxes up in the nice places.

Actually, right now people in many of the not-so-nice areas are being overtaxed, and people in many of the nicer areas are being undertaxed. That is how they won their court case, up to the PA supreme court, and got a court-ordered reassessment.

It is scary how much some people pay. Taxes are throwing money away. You never get all that back. I realize that you must be paying pennies, but move to Squirrel Hill and find out what many people have to deal with.

First, you have no idea what taxes I am paying. And by the way, what happened to all your crying to the mods about making things personal?

Second, taxes are the price people pay for living in a decent society. Higher income people are getting more out of their society than lower income people, so they should pay more taxes. If you want to see what the alternative looks like, go try living in a place like Somalia.