04-21-2011, 02:58 PM
Location: Mid-Atlantic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
greg42
Everything can't always continue the way it used to be. The mill was already closed. Do you honestly think the mall is not better than an EMPTY MILL?
No, but a mill would be better than a mall.
Mills will never come back, I realize that, but if you think the same amount of good paying jobs will come back, you are dreaming.
04-21-2011, 02:59 PM
Location: Philly
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sometimes less is more I guess. you can sort of see those same trends manifested in that hard to read map.
04-21-2011, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
pman
and revitalization is not necessarily the same thing as gentrification.
Also a good point. Given the ongoing income trends, I think we will see a lot of gentrification. But revitalization as you are defining it should be even more widespread.
Quote:
also, interestingly, the old wilkinsburg train station is still there. the question once came up, why is there no commuter rail? the obvious answer seems to be the east busway is in the most logical location for commuter rail...the former PRR ROW. I'd also point out the the value of the busway is only as good as the areas it serves. a revitalized east liberty is good for the value of being on the busway for wilkinsburg
And in fact the East Busway is actually more of a commuter line than a local transit line, particularly past Shadyside where it is more or less running in ravines and next to cliffs all the way to Downtown. But between Swissvale and Shadyside it can provide local transit as well, and I believe you are exactly right that a revitalized East Liberty will ultimately be good for TOD in Wilkinsburg.
04-21-2011, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Copanut
Fine, call me Mr. Anecdote, but you can you honestly tell me that tearing down the Homestead works and replacing it with that God awful mall means more money for the people that work there than the mills?
Well, that's the problem with anecdotes. Regional land use patterns are changing, so focusing on that plot of land in isolation of everything else doesn't really tell you much. Moreover, modern mills employ a tiny fraction of the people they used to, so comparing a mall today to mills in the now-distant past is a largely pointless exercise.
I don't want to make it sound like everything is great and couldn't be better. The recession did hit the Pittsburgh region, and we are still recovering. There are a lot more job opportunities for some people than others, and conversely potential employers are undersupplied in some areas (particularly regarding people with some post-HS training/education less than a 4-year degree).
But in relative terms, we are doing quite well, and there is a reason why we are getting more educated and higher-paid on average: more than not, we are adding good jobs.
04-21-2011, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Copanut
Mills will never come back, I realize that, but if you think the same amount of good paying jobs will come back, you are dreaming.
It has basically already happened. We have more jobs now than we had in the late 1970s, and on average they are higher-paying in real terms.
A couple things people pining for the days of the steel mills tend to overlook. First, a lot more women are employed now, and many of them have good jobs. Second, our labor force is way more educated on average now.
A truer statement would be that the same amount of good paying jobs for young men without a lot of education or training is unlikely to come back any time soon. That's not a negligible problem, but it isn't the same thing as there being a general job problem in the region.
04-21-2011, 04:39 PM
Location: Mid-Atlantic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
BrianTH
It has basically already happened. We have more jobs now than we had in the late 1970s, and on average they are higher-paying in real terms.
Show me some stats, because if what you are stating is true, why has Esplen, Allentown, Carrick, and so many other good areas fallen on hard times.
04-21-2011, 04:49 PM
Location: Pittsburgh area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Copanut
Mills will never come back, I realize that, but if you think the same amount of good paying jobs will come back, you are dreaming.
Eh, not the same kinds, and probably not the same amount, true. As mentioned already, it's clear there won't be as many easy to find good-paying jobs for those without much training or education.
But mainly, you interjected with the same old lament of so many in this area which is something like "Well the mills are gone so nothing can ever be as good as it once was." If that's true, what's the point of even still living, or at least staying around here? If we can't still have a good life then there isn't much point of going through the motions we go through every day, is there?
04-21-2011, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Copanut
Show me some stats, because if what you are stating is true, why has Esplen, Allentown, Carrick, and so many other good areas fallen on hard times.
Because development of places like Cranberry has pulled people out of old grungy areas like Allentown and Esplen. It's a trickle down type of thing. Cranberry or Peters is filled with people who would otherwise be living in Ross, or Mt Lebanon, or Upper St. Clair. Those places in turn, will draw some people who earlier would have lived in Shaler, or Dormont. People who before, might have had to settle for Allentown or Esplen, might now find a place in Shaler, or Dormont. Allentown is then left with those too poor to move, plus Section 8 refugees from razed projects. The Braddock's of the world can't even attract many of that demographic, and basically empty out. The neighborhoods would be much more stable if instead of building on farmland, most new construction occurred as a combination of infill, and reconstruction, in already developed areas. Unfortunately, most people don't want a brand new house on a small lot in Mt Lebanon, they want a brand new house on half an acre in an area where all of the other houses are new as well.
04-21-2011, 07:02 PM
Location: Mid-Atlantic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
greg42
Eh, not the same kinds, and probably not the same amount, true. As mentioned already, it's clear there won't be as many easy to find good-paying jobs for those without much training or education.
But mainly, you interjected with the same old lament of so many in this area which is something like "Well the mills are gone so nothing can ever be as good as it once was." If that's true, what's the point of even still living, or at least staying around here? If we can't still have a good life then there isn't much point of going through the motions we go through every day, is there?
For the record, I am ALL FOR GETTING THE ENTIRE PITTSBURGH ON THE UPSWING.
But, realistically, how will that happen? The city schools have about a 60% graduation rate, if this economy is all about Eds and Meds, what will those people do?
I want this area to get better, but I doubt that some boros/twps will ever be what they once were.
04-21-2011, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
calvin20874
Yes, I agree that the core area will experience more development. What about places like Wilkinsburg, though? You mentioned the busway as a possible catalyst for revitalization. The busway has been around for more than 20 years, has it not? If anything, Wilkinsburg has decayed further during that time. In fact, it seems to me that the eastern suburbs are slowly fading away in general (having grown up in the eastern suburbs). You could point to the fact that the busway goes through East Liberty as a counter-example, but what has been the catalyst for revitalization of East Liberty? I was under the impression it was spillover (lack of available commercial real estate, etc) from Shadyside, as opposed to the busway.
When I first visited Chicago around 1990, Wicker Park, Bucktown, Wrigleyville were pretty much ghettos existing around El stations. Downtown Des Plaines and Arlington Heights, around heavy rail stations, were decaying. All those areas had been served by many many decades of transit. But sometime between 1990 and 2005, all of a sudden those neighborhoods became hot, and TOD was everywhere.
Chicago did not experience any growth boom; it's barely still clinging to its position as America's third-largest city. The transit system was older than Pittsburgh's busway system. Yet TOD still happened. I would imagine, like everything else, that it's just delayed in Pittsburgh.
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Median household income ($) - Black or African American
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Deaths caused by coronavirus (Apr 29, 2024)
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Hospitalized patients (Apr 18, 2022)
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COVID Vaccine doses distributed (per 100k population) (Sep 19, 2023)
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COVID Vaccine doses administered (Sep 19, 2023)
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Mean house or condo value by units in structure - 1, detached ($)
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Mean house or condo value by units in structure - 2 ($)
Mean house or condo value by units in structure by units in structure - 3 or 4 ($)
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Commute - mean travel time to work (minutes)
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Occupied housing units (%)
Vacant housing units (%)
Owner occupied housing units (%)
Renter occupied housing units (%)
Vacancy status - For rent (%)
Vacancy status - For sale only (%)
Vacancy status - Rented or sold, not occupied (%)
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Residents with income below the poverty level (%)
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Poverty status for native-born residents (%)
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Poverty among high school graduates not in families (%)
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Residents with income below the poverty level (%) - White
Residents with income below the poverty level (%) - Black or African American
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Residents with income below the poverty level (%) - American Indian and Alaska Native
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Air pollution - Air Quality Index (AQI)
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Crime - Murders per 100,000 population
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Crime - Murders per 100,000 population (5 year average)
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Crime - Assaults per 100,000 population (5 year average)
Crime - Burglaries per 100,000 population (5 year average)
Crime - Thefts per 100,000 population (5 year average)
Crime - Auto thefts per 100,000 population (5 year average)
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Crime - City-data.com crime index (5 year average)
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1996 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Democratic Party (Clinton)
1996 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Republican Party (Dole)
1996 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Other
2000 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Democratic Party (Gore)
2000 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Republican Party (Bush)
2000 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Other
2004 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Democratic Party (Kerry)
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2012 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Other
2016 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Democratic Party (Clinton)
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2020 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Democratic Party (Biden)
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Urban houses (%)
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Mortgage status - with mortgage (%)
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Geographical mobility - Same house 1 year ago (%)
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Housing units in structures - 1, detached (%)
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House/condo owner moved in on average (years ago)
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Working at home (%)
Industry diversity
Most Common Industries - Agriculture, forestry, fishing and hunting, and mining (%)
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Occupation diversity
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People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
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People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
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People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
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People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)