Pittsburgh from a NoVa Perspective (Wall, Oakland: how much, hotel, house)

[JD984]

So, we just had the opposite experience from h_curtis, which is to say I just spent two days in Pittsburgh and Western PA with my NoVa born-and-bred child looking at a few schools in the area (specifically, Pitt and another school located outside the city).

Thanks to those who provided recommendations on Thai dining options in Pittsburgh earlier. We ended up eating at Spice Island Tea House one night (very friendly service, mediocre food) and Thai Taste in Shadyside (attentive service and much better food, though a bit expensive) the next day.

So here are some things we liked and didn't like. Not sure these observations particularly reflect a NoVa sensibility, but here you go:

Liked -

1. Great neighborhoods like Oakland, Shadyside and Squirrel Hill - we didn't check out other residential areas, but these areas all had a ton of character and Oakland seemed like a great area for students. Reminded me a bit of parts of Montreal near McGill or even Berkeley.

2. Almost everyone we encountered was very friendly - and I mean everyone (from the hotel receptionist to the tour guide at Pitt, the other guests at the hotel we stayed, and the service people at the local Verizon store downtown where we stopped for a charger).

3. Lots of great vistas from different parts of the city.

4. Driving in the city itself - armed with a good map - turned out to be surprisingly easy, and street parking was an absolute bargain compared to DC (where a quarter will get you a measly 7 1/2 minutes).

Dislikes -

1. Some of the buildings in Pittsburgh to the immediate east of downtown seemed to be in really bad condition. I guess there are parts of most urban areas like this, but it was surprising that these dilapidated areas were so close to an otherwise pretty impressive downtown.
2. There seemed to be a fairly large group of folks hanging out downtown in the middle of the day who gave off a creepy and somewhat hostile vibe - groups of 5-6 people smoking furiously and stinking the air up, a woman loudly cursing at her young daughter, seriously obese people, etc. Most people who live in DC, and definitely someone who spends most of their time in NoVa, simply are not going to encounter this concentration of poverty and/or pathology. It definitely made us feel very sheltered by comparison.

3. Traffic heading south on the Fort Pitt tunnel in the mid-afternoon turned out to be a lot busier than I'd anticipated. I guess I'd read enough about how much easier it was to commute in the Pittsburgh area than in NoVa that I didn't expect the bridge and tunnel to be so congested.

I think we would have spent more time exploring the city neighborhoods if the weather hadn't been quite so cold and rainy yesterday (it apparently wasn't much better back in NoVa). However, I wouldn't be surprised if we're making at least one more trip to the area over the next year or so, and hopefully the weather will cooperate a bit more.

Thanks, Pittsburghers!

[steindle]

Originally Posted by JEB77

1. Some of the buildings in Pittsburgh to the immediate east of downtown seemed to be in really bad condition. I guess there are parts of most urban areas like this, but it was surprising that these dilapidated areas were so close to an otherwise pretty impressive downtown.

The most popular thread on here over the course of the last few weeks has been debating the reasons for this -- one theory is that it never recovered from a stadium being built over something like 15 blocks of the neighborhood that was once there. In any case, this shouldn't really be a significant downside -- thankfully you're not really forced to hang out in that area.

2. There seemed to be a fairly large group of folks hanging out downtown in the middle of the day who gave off a creepy vibe - groups of 5-6 people smoking furiously and stinking the air up, a woman loudly cursing at her young daughter, seriously obese people, etc. Most people who live in DC, and definitely someone who spends most of their time in NoVa, simply are not going to encounter this concentration of poverty and/or pathology. It definitely made us feel very sheltered by comparison.

Welcome to any urban area in the world. Also, to say that "most people who live in DC" aren't going to encounter concentrations of poverty seems statistically unlikely, since D.C. has a higher rate of poverty than any state in the country except Mississippi.

Glad you otherwise had a good time.

[Aqua Teen Carl]

I think people here in general are down to Earth, friendly, and helpful especially compared to many other American cities I've been in. But at the same time we have a population of "scummy" folks who smoke like chimneys and swear like truckers. It's kinda funny actually, I love to people watch here.

[BrianTH]

I originally came here for school (grad school in my case), and it remains a really attractive place for an urban university experience.

By the way, I was also surprised by the distressed area between Downtown and Oakland when I first got here. I now have a better understanding of how that happened, but on some level I still think it stands out as one the most odd features of our cityscape (and it has a lot of competition). But hopefully we are finally on the verge of that changing.

[JD984]

Originally Posted by steindle

Welcome to any urban area in the world.

Not to belabor the point, as I do think you'd come across this in many urban areas, but not necessarily right in the heart of the downtown business area (this was right off of Fifth Avenue/Wood Street, if I recall correctly).

That's what I'm really offering as an observation - simply, an impression that the affluent business workers at a downtown office tower, or visitors to the downtown area, are more likely to be exposed to or reminded of how the poor live than their more sheltered counterparts in DC, Manhattan or their suburban equivalents (Silicon Valley, NoVa). Not saying there aren't poor folks living or congregating in other metropolitan areas such as the SE part of DC or parts of NYC.

[BrianTH]

When I was working in Downtown DC, the small parks/squares were where you could find poorer people.

Anyway, I've seen people hypothesize that because Downtown is the hub of our transportation system with a lot of bus to bus transfers, that is why people encounter more poorer people Downtown than they would otherwise expect.

[MeinGlanzendMotorrad]

Oh man, not fat people. CALL OUT THE NATIONAL GUARD AT ONCE!

[JD984]

Originally Posted by MeinGlanzendMotorrad

Oh man, not fat people. CALL OUT THE NATIONAL GUARD AT ONCE!

Yeah, I asked for that, I guess. I probably wouldn't have dropped that into the description, but for the fact that we ran into a mother who was screaming profanities at her young daughter, while her own obese mother (cigarette hanging out her mouth) and husband/boyfriend watched impassively without saying a word or lifting a finger. In that context, it really felt like we were coming across folks who didn't take good care of themselves, or of others.

As BrianTH noted, if you work in DC, you're likely to come across a few homeless or mentally ill guys in places like Farragut or McPherson Square. That tends to trigger a sense of sympathy, rather than make you wonder whether you need to try and stage an intervention or find the number for Child Services. Are there dysfunctional family units in DC or NYC? Of course. Do they tend to put it all out there for display on K Street or Wall Street? Not so much.

Architecturally, I thought downtown Pittsburgh was pretty impressive, but the vibe was definitely a bit different from a lot of other downtown East Coast business areas. Probably best that I leave it at that, since the overall thrust of the thread is to convey that we had a good trip and came across mostly friendly people.

[steindle]

Originally Posted by JEB77

Architecturally, I thought downtown Pittsburgh was pretty impressive, but the vibe was definitely a bit different from a lot of other downtown East Coast business areas. Probably best that I leave it at that, since the overall thrust of the thread is to convey that we had a good trip and came across mostly friendly people.

It should also be noted that obviously Downtown Pittsburgh varies substantially from block to block, as do most substantial "downtown" areas (I'm thinking here of Philly, for example, which has fairly radical distinctions within Center City). 5th and Wood is literally the exact intersection I would peg as the most economically downtrodden in the downtown business district -- Wood Street as a whole is home primarily to wig stores, dollar stores, and weird cell phone outlets.

By contrast, just a few blocks in literally any direction -- Penn between 6th and 10th, Boulevard of the Allies, Grant Street, etc. -- is an entirely different world.

[algia]

It seems to have a higher rate because it is so tiny. Same here in Tampa, people look at statistics and think we have the worst crime, but that is because the "City of Tampa" itself only has 300k ppl and several miles that are flat out crack towns. Most ppl live in the suburbs outside of the city.


I have to disagree a bit with the "world" term here because in Europe for example, crack towns are not visible, they all are outside or on the outskirts of cities so "encounters" like these are not likely. I've traveled to Asia and have never seen such thing there either.

Generally a "court house" here would bring the Jerry Springer crowd! You should see the one down here...OMG!

Down towns here are known for being left in disrepair, you should see Miami, Detroit and a lot of other cities that have been left to rot while the building went on uncontrolled far far away from the city pushing ppl on pastures and basically forcing ppl to drive when it should have been the other way around, some of these old buildings are gorgeous and should all have been restored and made available to ppl for either living or entertainment:
Yves Marchand & Romain Meffre Photography - The Ruins of Detroit

There is really no excuse or reason as to "why" this is allowed to happen here.

Originally Posted by steindle

Welcome to any urban area in the world. Also, to say that "most people who live in DC" aren't going to encounter concentrations of poverty seems statistically unlikely, since D.C. has a higher rate of poverty than any state in the country except Mississippi.