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I will comment on this later, but I do have a question for all the people that seem to feel the Civic Arena is somehow in the way for Hill District residents to get into the city. I don't understand this reasoning at all. I park in the Hill all the time and walk to the city. You can walk on either side of the Arena and having some road in between will do nothing. If people are too lazy to walk that little bit, I suspect they wouldn't walk at all. It is like any other structure and walking around anything really means nothing unless you are talking about some great distance. Not sure why people think removing it will create some gateway? The large road that is below the Arena is the obstacle (Washington PL) into the city. It is not an easy road to cross. Other than that, the people that complain about city access from there are not walkers and never will be. Anyone that actually walks anywhere, wouldn't pay attention to walking by the Arena. Means nothing.
For or against the Arena's use, access is a silly argument.
I'm an avid distance walker and runner within the city, so I will thank you to not infer that anyone who complains about limited pedestrian/cyclist access between the Hill District and Downtown is "not a walker and never will be". The quality of one's walk can greatly impact whether or not they'd like to continue walking or find another mode of transportation (or another route if one is available, which is my argument here).
For me to get Downtown the quickest way to walk is right down Bigelow Boulevard, which, as I've complained about in the past, has no pedestrian connectivity from Polish Hill to Downtown once you reach a certain point. Liberty Avenue from Polish Hill is the next logical route; however, since Liberty Avenue is so blighted, relatively high-speed, and litter-strewn through the Strip District I much prefer to either walk down the more lively Penn Avenue or will even go out of my way to cross the 31st Street Bridge and walk/run down the River Walk on the North Shore. I now see that the new trail is open between the Cork Factory Lofts and Downtown, so I'll be giving that a test run sometime soon when my work schedule permits. If Liberty Avenue (or Bigelow Boulevard, for example) were my ONLY ways to access Downtown on foot, then I'd be more inclined to drive. Likewise if getting Downtown from the Hill District requires crossing a huge high-speed arterial (Washington Place) after walking beside a huge tract of surface parking near "Da Igloo", then I might also consider driving. What good is walking or biking to your destination if the walk is a miserable, unpleasant, and potentially dangerous experience? The redevelopment of this parcel will create a more interesting atmosphere for pedestrians. Hopefully it will also include improvements to Washington Place to make it more accommodating towards non-motor-vehicle options of transport.
In Shadyside they currently have created a traffic mess on Alder Street by closing Ellsworth Avenue in order to build an expensive "bridge to nowhere" so that out-of-shape yuppies don't have to walk a few extra blocks to Highland Avenue to cross the East Busway in order to access Whole Foods or Starbuck's. If we can spend money on relatively low-priority projects like this in upscale areas, then why can't we work to make walking more enjoyable in our impoverished neighborhoods, too? Redeveloping the Civic Arena site and working to "calm" traffic on Washington Place will definitely help to heal the damage that was done to the Hill District when both were constructed.
In Shadyside they currently have created a traffic mess on Alder Street by closing Ellsworth Avenue in order to build an expensive "bridge to nowhere" so that out-of-shape yuppies don't have to walk a few extra blocks to Highland Avenue to cross the East Busway in order to access Whole Foods or Starbuck's.
Every time you issue forth one of these self-serving generalizations, all you do is show us how much more entitled you feel than any of the so-called yuppies you deride.
Location: About 10 miles north of Pittsburgh International
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Just for background, there used to exist an Ellsworth Ave. bridge across the tracks there. It was in poor repair, and taken down prior to the construction of the busway, and not replaced. So, one could argue that they're restoring walkability to that area, which they eliminated 40 years ago, before those out-of-shape yuppies were born...
while I don't agree with deriding the bridge (although he undermined his bridge to nowhere comment by adding it was going to somewhere) he does have a point about walk quality. the igloo is a giant asphalt wasteland and prevents cohesion the same way a desert between the hill and downtown would
I'm an avid distance walker and runner within the city, so I will thank you to not infer that anyone who complains about limited pedestrian/cyclist access between the Hill District and Downtown is "not a walker and never will be". The quality of one's walk can greatly impact whether or not they'd like to continue walking or find another mode of transportation (or another route if one is available, which is my argument here).
None of what you posted has much to do with passing the Civic Arena. If people can't walk past the Civic Arena then they are not walkers and are not going to walk at all anyway. I mean who would even think of it as some obstruction to downtown? It is pretty darn small when you are talking about walking down the hill to the city and you can pass it on either side on nice sidewalks. It means nothing accessing the city from the Hill. The road I pointed out is a much bigger problem. It is very wide and has piles of traffic. Even when I go to Pens games, I think about passing that road, even though there is a cop and tons of people everywhere. The Arena is no big deal. Sure it will be torn down and something else built there, but don't think that is some big key to help the Hill District. It isn't. It will be new construction and will have very little to do with the actual Hill itself. It will align itself with downtown because there already is new construction right above the Arena.
Trying to compare passing the arena to getting from Polish Hill to downtown is silly. Bigelow is a totally different situation. That is a long stretch of road that has NO bike way or anything. It is as people unfriendly as it gets. There are sidewalks on both sides of the C Arena. No comparison can be made in any way. Polish Hill is also not very close to the city in comparison to where the Arena is sitting.
In Shadyside they currently have created a traffic mess on Alder Street by closing Ellsworth Avenue in order to build an expensive "bridge to nowhere" so that out-of-shape yuppies don't have to walk a few extra blocks to Highland Avenue to cross the East Busway in order to access Whole Foods or Starbuck's. If we can spend money on relatively low-priority projects like this in upscale areas, then why can't we work to make walking more enjoyable in our impoverished neighborhoods, too? Redeveloping the Civic Arena site and working to "calm" traffic on Washington Place will definitely help to heal the damage that was done to the Hill District when both were constructed.
When you start paying Shadyside taxes you can whine. Last I checked you are living in a much less expensive area. Like it or not the people who pay insane amounts of money to live in an area like Shadyside get a higher priority. They pay for it. Also, I don't see many out of shape people walking around Shadyside. If anything, it is probably the most fit area of the city. That bridge was wanted and I think it is great.
I get a kick out of people living on a beer budget, but want champagne. Start ponying up the bucks Shadyside pays out and you will have your bridge to where ever. I know I can't afford to buy there, but I am not going to complain if they get some nice bridge or whatever they get. They pay for it and then some to live there. That is life.
Every time you issue forth one of these self-serving generalizations, all you do is show us how much more entitled you feel than any of the so-called yuppies you deride.
What's to stop these people from walking a couple of blocks down to Highland Avenue from Spahr Street? My partner lives near to Alder & Spahr, and we routinely walk down Alder to Highland and then to anything we need along Penn Circle South/Centre Avenue in a matter of minutes. It's not like the walk down Alder is an unpleasant one, especially compared to the walk down Bigelow Boulevard or near the Civic Arena, both of which would have been better-served by this funding.
None of what you posted has much to do with passing the Civic Arena. If people can't walk past the Civic Arena then they are not walkers and are not going to walk at all anyway. I mean who would even think of it as some obstruction to downtown? It is pretty darn small when you are talking about walking down the hill to the city and you can pass it on either side on nice sidewalks. It means nothing accessing the city from the Hill. The road I pointed out is a much bigger problem. It is very wide and has piles of traffic. Even when I go to Pens games, I think about passing that road, even though there is a cop and tons of people everywhere. The Arena is no big deal. Sure it will be torn down and something else built there, but don't think that is some big key to help the Hill District. It isn't. It will be new construction and will have very little to do with the actual Hill itself. It will align itself with downtown because there already is new construction right above the Arena.
Trying to compare passing the arena to getting from Polish Hill to downtown is silly. Bigelow is a totally different situation. That is a long stretch of road that has NO bike way or anything. It is as people unfriendly as it gets. There are sidewalks on both sides of the C Arena. No comparison can be made in any way. Polish Hill is also not very close to the city in comparison to where the Arena is sitting.
There's a difference between being "too lazy" to walk somewhere and being totally put-off by the unattractiveness of the route you'd have to walk along to access Point B from Point A. For utilitarian purposes, yes, you could walk from the Hill to Downtown right past the Civic Arena on sidewalks. How pleasant of a walk is it, really, though, when you are surrounded by wide and high-speed arterials and very little, if any, foliage? This is why I said I refuse to walk down Liberty Avenue from Polish Hill to Downtown, even though it is the most direct route (after Bigelow Boulevard, which, as was aforementioned, is long overdue for an overhaul). I instead have to walk further---out of my way---to walk to another route that is more pleasant and enjoyable. Walking to destinations should provide you with pleasure---not stress.
I'm incredulous that you feel as if additional mid-scale and mixed-use development straddling the border between Downtown and the Hill District will NOT benefit the Hill District. The gentrification in Crawford-Roberts will spread further into the Hill District towards the very troubled Middle Hill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by h_curtis
When you start paying Shadyside taxes you can whine. Last I checked you are living in a much less expensive area. Like it or not the people who pay insane amounts of money to live in an area like Shadyside get a higher priority. They pay for it. Also, I don't see many out of shape people walking around Shadyside. If anything, it is probably the most fit area of the city. That bridge was wanted and I think it is great.
I get a kick out of people living on a beer budget, but want champagne. Start ponying up the bucks Shadyside pays out and you will have your bridge to where ever. I know I can't afford to buy there, but I am not going to complain if they get some nice bridge or whatever they get. They pay for it and then some to live there. That is life.
I never knew it was wanting "champagne" to wonder why the officials who planned Bigelow Boulevard weren't forward-thinking and didn't simultaneously plan for cyclists and pedestrians as well so people could commute with ease from Polish Hill, the Upper Hill, or North Oakland to Downtown without having to traverse the Strip District. What exactly are we in Polish Hill getting in return for our taxes while people in Shadyside are getting another pedestrian bridge that will save them a grand total of five minutes on their walks? Have you seen how blighted our neighborhood is lately? Any and all improvements that have been done since I've moved here have been done via the blood, sweat, dollars, and tears of neighborhood volunteers. That says a lot about the hardiness of the people here; however, I'm inclined to believe that in the city there are many areas where people contribute more via taxes than what they receive in return.
Also, Polish Hill isn't quite as "dirt cheap" as you imply. Most rentals (the few there are) I can now find are well over $600/month to approaching $700/month for 1-BR units, and most of these don't have in-unit washers/dryers or much in the way of modernization. That's not that much cheaper than 1-BR units in Shadyside. I realize you live in Fox Chapel, though, so you probably don't frequent Polish Hill. My particular apartment was a rare bargain, and it was a Godsend that it fell into my lap. It has its fair share of problems, but overall I would be paying probably $100/month more for a comparable unit here in Polish Hill if I were looking later this year.
What's to stop these people from walking a couple of blocks down to Highland Avenue from Spahr Street? My partner lives near to Alder & Spahr, and we routinely walk down Alder to Highland and then to anything we need along Penn Circle South/Centre Avenue in a matter of minutes. It's not like the walk down Alder is an unpleasant one, especially compared to the walk down Bigelow Boulevard or near the Civic Arena, both of which would have been better-served by this funding.
I'm "entitled?" How so?
I think h_ spelled it out pretty well above.
Though I will probably never use that bridge -- I walk to Whole Foods from a different, basically opposite, direction -- I do not think those who will use the bridge are inherently less deserving of an easier walk than you are. You obviously (and quite vehemently) disagree. Your words speak for themselves. And they say "I am entitled."
Where will the bridge cross over, College? Spahr?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityRising
My particular apartment was a rare bargain, and it was a Godsend that it fell into my lap.
I take it you finally had the hot water turned on.
Though I will probably never use that bridge -- I walk to Whole Foods from a different, basically opposite, direction -- I do not think those who will use the bridge are inherently less deserving of an easier walk than you are. You obviously (and quite vehemently) disagree. Your words speak for themselves. And they say "I am entitled."
Where will the bridge cross over, College? Spahr?
I take it you finally had the hot water turned on.
I'm not "entitled". I just want our tax dollars spent judiciously and not with frivolity. I'm all for encouraging pedestrian accessibility within our community; however, should we make some neighborhoods "ultra-walkable" while others continue to languish with poor connectivity? As I said my partner lives very near to where this bridge is being built, and we can currently walk to Whole Foods with ease. His roommate actually works at a nearby restaurant.
I can just think of many other parts of the city that could use SOME pedestrian connectivity before other neighborhoods are ULTRA-connected.
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