Airport traffic up again (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh: hotels, living, trains)

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by PITairport

I doubt they would have replaced the 50 or so US Airways departures

Now that PIT isn't a hub or even a focus city, USAir is operating those flights because there is local demand for them. I see no reason why other carriers wouldn't meet that local demand in the absence of USAir. In other words, we've agreed USAir is operating a business, not a charity, and I doubt that USAir is such a uniquely efficient business that only it can make money on those flights.

Oh well, we'll never know. But I do have my suspicions that consumers in this industry, including in Pittsburgh, have been ill-served in bankruptcy by keeping airlines like USAir continuing rather than liquidating.

[acenturi]

I would think the viability of a large international cargo facility at PIT would depend on the cargo type and the frequency - a lot more than 1 or 2 flights/week. Cargo which is primarily perishables (fruit, vegetables, etc.) would seem to compete directly (and likely unfavorably) with the huge shipping facilities in Baltimore, Philly and NYC. Cargo such as computer related equipment (pcs, phones, etc..) and TVs are sea shipped via west coast ports from Asia and trucked/railed to major cities with no critical time constraints. So what other large international cargo is required to be air shipped on say a daily frequency and be cost competetive with the above air ports, including distribution to the mid-west and east coast? Another possibility already being explored I believe, is the PHL expansion/makeover fallout from UPS. PHL is the 2nd largest UPS hub in the U.S. and if the expansion goes forward as approved by the FAA, UPS will be required to relocate to a less desireable (from their perspective) airport location. If PIT is serious about enticing UPS to relocate, they should do a lot more than send a letter of interest. IMO, they should invest in and develop a detailed Plan, which credibly shows the advantages of moving here, including logistical designs, distribution analysis and some potential commitment for financial support of the required move and facility development. That's more than 40 UPS flights/day and of course a huge number of trucking facilities. Can UPS be convinced to move 300 miles away from the East Coast megalopolis and still make the same or more profits? I don't know, but if Pittsburgh wants them, they need to figure it out.

[acenturi]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Now that PIT isn't a hub or even a focus city, USAir is operating those flights because there is local demand for them. I see no reason why other carriers wouldn't meet that local demand in the absence of USAir. ......

If US Airways merged into AA - the most analyst speculated forecast, PIT flight activity would probablty remain fairly much the same, based on the originating/departing traffic numbers. However, the destination mix/frequencies would very likely change to reflect a potential Hub restructure to incorporate LAX, DFW, ORD, JFK and MIA. Would a new AA provide a 757 non-stop to LHR as a BA code share? One could only hope.

[BrianTH]

I'd love an AA merger just to have better international options for our USAir miles.

[pman]

Originally Posted by acenturi

I would think the viability of a large international cargo facility at PIT would depend on the cargo type and the frequency - a lot more than 1 or 2 flights/week. Cargo which is primarily perishables (fruit, vegetables, etc.) would seem to compete directly (and likely unfavorably) with the huge shipping facilities in Baltimore, Philly and NYC. Cargo such as computer related equipment (pcs, phones, etc..) and TVs are sea shipped via west coast ports from Asia and trucked/railed to major cities with no critical time constraints. So what other large international cargo is required to be air shipped on say a daily frequency and be cost competetive with the above air ports, including distribution to the mid-west and east coast? Another possibility already being explored I believe, is the PHL expansion/makeover fallout from UPS. PHL is the 2nd largest UPS hub in the U.S. and if the expansion goes forward as approved by the FAA, UPS will be required to relocate to a less desireable (from their perspective) airport location. If PIT is serious about enticing UPS to relocate, they should do a lot more than send a letter of interest. IMO, they should invest in and develop a detailed Plan, which credibly shows the advantages of moving here, including logistical designs, distribution analysis and some potential commitment for financial support of the required move and facility development. That's more than 40 UPS flights/day and of course a huge number of trucking facilities. Can UPS be convinced to move 300 miles away from the East Coast megalopolis and still make the same or more profits? I don't know, but if Pittsburgh wants them, they need to figure it out.

I agree, PIT should watch the PHL situation closely...it would be an interesting turn of events. they might have to work with the state to improve rail connections as ups is a major freight rail customers and I believe there is freight rail access at their current site.

[BrianTH]

Unfortunately there is currently no rail to or even very near the airport.

[Velvet Jones]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Unfortunately there is currently no rail to or even very near the airport.

Instead of spending a half billion dollars on that stupid tunnel, wouldn't it have made better sense to tie in a new western T line down near station square? There is already a large right away along the river, I would think that adding a commuter line next to the freight lines would have been much cheaper. A light rail in to town from the airport area would be a incredible.

[BrianTH]

If you want to get the T to the airport, it certainly doesn't make sense to start on the wrong side of the Ohio.

However, getting the T to the airport really doesn't make much sense in the first place, in light of the likely costs. It is the same problem as with freight rail--the nearest existing rail is running along the Ohio, and getting it to the airport from there would be very, very costly, particularly in light of the local topography. The T is also the wrong technology for long-distance express runs like that.

So to the extent you wanted better transit service from the airport, you'd be better off extending the West Busway all the way into Downtown (as originally planned, which would have lots of additional benefits), and then upgrading the 28X.

Here, by the way, is a PA rail map (PDF), and you can see the problem--the airport is in a huge rail dead zone (for those not intimately familiar with its location, it is right next to the Highway 60 marker in the west part of Allegheny County):

ftp://ftp.dot.state.pa.us/public/pdf/BPR_pdf_files/MAPS/Statewide/parail.pdf (broken link)

[Velvet Jones]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

If you want to get the T to the airport, it certainly doesn't make sense to start on the wrong side of the Ohio.

However, getting the T to the airport really doesn't make much sense in the first place, in light of the likely costs. It is the same problem as with freight rail--the nearest existing rail is running along the Ohio, and getting it to the airport from there would be very, very costly, particularly in light of the local topography. The T is also the wrong technology for long-distance express runs like that.

So to the extent you wanted better transit service from the airport, you'd be better off extending the West Busway all the way into Downtown (as originally planned, which would have lots of additional benefits), and then upgrading the 28X.

Here, by the way, is a PA rail map (PDF), and you can see the problem--the airport is in a huge rail dead zone (for those not intimately familiar with its location, it is right next to the Highway 60 marker in the west part of Allegheny County):

ftp://ftp.dot.state.pa.us/public/pdf/BPR_pdf_files/MAPS/Statewide/parail.pdf (broken link)

The T at SQ is still on the correct side of the river. You could follow the Ohio all the way up to around Coraopolis, then cut up somewhere. Granted, cutting up from the river might be a challenge. It's not very populated, mainly because it is all hills and ravines. The busway route would be expensive due to the right away. There is no clear path to cut through without spending a boat load of money to buy out private land owners. Light rail might not be the best answer either, I would prefer high speed rail. 10 minutes from down town to the airport? That would be something. But there is more of a change of big meteor wiping out the city than of that happening.

[Copanut]

I don't see the need for a direct line from the Airport to downtown. How often would it be used? I know I wouldn't living in the North. A lot of business people never see downtown with all the industrial parks in the 'burbs. And if you want to run it from the stadium towards Sewickley than over the river, the commute time would be very long.