Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I guess Pittsburgh never really expanded outward like DC did, to characterless disney-like areas called Ashburn
The largest cohort of unhappy NoVa residents, from what I can tell based on a totally unscientific recollection of many C-D posts, are singles or married couples without children who live in western Fairfax or Loudoun County (where Ashburn is located). They don't make enough money to move closer to DC, their jobs are often in office parks in the the Dulles/Tysons/Reston area and/or they really want to live in a more urban environment and feel that living in a far-flung suburb is making them old before their time. I'm sure there are exceptions, but older NoVa residents, parents of school-age children, and those who live closer to DC, generally seem to be a happier lot.
For a lot of the people in the first category, I think moving (if not to Pittsburgh, than somewhere else) might be just what they need - provided they have lined up a job or have saved enough to deal with a period of under-employment. In Pittsburgh, you can likely afford to live in a decent neighborhood in the city itself, or a first-ring suburb with a good amount of charm; you're less likely to work in an office park in a far-flung suburb; and you get a town that has enough sparkle for those who need reminders they're living in the 21st century and enough grit for those who have an urban decay fetish.
However, the job market in many different fields simply is not nearly as robust in Pittsburgh as it has been in the DC area in recent years. Indeed, in some fields, such as BrianTH's, the opportunities in the Philadelphia area are significantly greater than they are in Pittsburgh. Maybe it's different in other fields - IT(?), healthcare, education - but it's enough to give one pause.
The largest cohort of unhappy NoVa residents, from what I can tell based on a totally unscientific recollection of many C-D posts, are singles or married couples without children who live in western Fairfax or Loudoun County (where Ashburn is located). They don't make enough money to move closer to DC, their jobs are often in office parks in the the Dulles/Tysons/Reston area and/or they really want to live in a more urban environment and feel that living in a far-flung suburb has made them old before their time.
For a lot of these people, I think moving (if not to Pittsburgh than somewhere else) might be just what they need - provided they have lined up a job or have saved enough to deal with a period of under-employment. In Pittsburgh, you can likely afford to live in a decent neighborhood in the city itself, or a first-ring suburb with a good amount of charm; you're less likely to work in an office park in a far-flung suburb; and you get a town that has enough sparkle for those who need reminders they're living in the 21st century and enough grit for those who have an urban decay fetish.
However, the job market in many different fields simply is not nearly as robust in Pittsburgh as it has been in the DC area in recent years. Indeed, in some fields, such as BrianTH's, the opportunities in Philadelphia and its suburbs are significantly greater than they are in Pittsburgh. Maybe it's different in other fields - IT(?), healthcare, education.
Agreed.
What pisses me off about DC is that 3/4 of the city is either ghetto or partially ghetto.
I have been to many cities world wide, but I have yet to see such a mess as DC is.
Thats why people move to western Fairfax, and then ***** about it
JEB, I agree somewhat, although I know lots of childfree couples who are happy out here in the outer burbs of Nova. IMO age is the most important factor.
I've often said that someone 24 or younger just isn't likely to be happy living out in the Dulles Tech Corridor, even though so many are moving here right now because that's where a huge number of jobs are. For the younger folks, I think it's worth it to live closer in to DC and commute out to the Tech Corridor.
In Pittsburgh, the equivalent would be someone under the age of 24 choosing to move into an apartment in Cranberry. You just want to tell them that Cranberry is a great community but at that age you're going to meet a lot more friends and have more fun closer in to downtown. IMO a lot of people do eventually develop an appreciation for suburban living, but it doesn't seem to start until their late 20s or maybe even later.
That's why (IMO) comparing Pittsburgh and Nova is like comparing apples and oranges. It's a comparison of burbs vs. city rather than a comparison of two different metro areas. If the object is to compare the metro areas, the better comparison should be either Pittsburgh compared to DC & maybe the inner burbs (Alexandria, Arlington, etc.) or Cranberry compared to the outer burbs of Nova (Reston, McLean, Dulles Tech Corridor, etc.).
I grew up in nova. Parents still live there so i still visit it a lot. I recently spent 3 years in Baltimore so im pretty familiar with there too. I am so glad to be back in Pittsburgh. I like Pittsburgh better by far even if the cost of living was the same, considering how much cheaper Pittsburgh is, its a no brainer really (provided you dont have to be in dc for job related reasons). The winter weather is really the only thing i dont like about pittsburgh in comparison to nova, but the weather in pitttsburgh really isnt that bad. Summers are quite pleasant in comparison.
Some friendly encouragement from a former permatemp, getting hired in can happen.
Add me to the list of people who have secured permanent employment through a temp agency. Many people I know have found jobs that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrarisnowday
Also, there is not a white collar employer in the world who would look down on you for leaving a temp position or a fruit delivery position. Unless you can frame those jobs in a way that shows you have relevant skills to whatever accounting job you are applying for then it probably is barely worth taking up the space on your resume with it. There are various techniques for glossing over a period of job hopping or unemployment on a resume.
Employers will care if you jump from accounting job to accounting job very quickly, but jumping from fruit delivery to temping some place to working in a ware house and back to fruit delivery is not going to look any better or worse than just working fruit delivery the entire time.
Agreed. The longer he stays out of his field, the harder it will be for him to find a job in accounting. At least with temping, he can keep his accounting skills current. Accounting temp work on a resume is much better than irrelevant work outside his field.
And I do think white collar employers will hire a recent college grad or an accounting temp before they hire someone who spent two years delivering fruit.
Another problem is that his excuse for moving here, "I was looking for a change," is too flaky. It would serve him better to spin it as following a partner who was transferred or any other more traditional reason people leave jobs for another city. (STR, your reason doesn't have to be true. They don't need to know that there was no partner at the time you moved here. After all, your personal life shouldn't be a point of discussion with employers and coworkers. Vague is good when it comes to personal details.)
A solution would be to pursue a masters while delivering fruit. Then his education becomes the main focus and white collar employers would view the fruit delivery position as student employment. His promotion would be more impressive in the light of a "working college student" too.
My wife temped for a few months when we first moved to Pittsburgh because she couldn't find anything else and after living 3 months on just my salary (fairly meager at the time) and being bored sitting at home all day she decided enough was enough. It wasn't the best job or the best pay, but it didn't take long for her to find a permanent job in the same field. The temp work was definitely seen as a plus. She about doubled her salary in 4 years in Pittsburgh and has doubled it again since then. Mind you, most of this improvement in position took place during a period which has generally been pretty awful for the economy and jobs.
Agreed. The longer he stays out of his field, the harder it will be for him to find a job in accounting. At least with temping, he can keep his accounting skills current. Accounting temp work on a resume is much better than irrelevant work outside his field.
And I do think white collar employers will hire a recent college grad or an accounting temp before they hire someone who spent two years delivering fruit.
Those are very good points. I've also known quite a few people to get permanent position from temp jobs, so it does happen (even if it's not always the case). Also, temp jobs almost always pay more than $10/hour. Even a small jump in pay can make life quite a bit easier.
IMO the best thing about a temp job is it gives you a chance to re-establish what sort of an office employee you are. Just my opinion, but this might be important for you. It sounds like your resume attracts interest, but the moment they start doing a background check on you, the employers back away. There may be a mistake or two you made in your first job that makes future employers hesitant. A temp job is your chance to re-write the book--or at least write a new chapter. Yes, you're probably also doing that in the fruit delivery job but employers don't really care about jobs like that. They want to know how you are in an office situation, and preferably in an accounting or auditor job. A temp job can help you a lot more than the fruit delivery job, IMO.
I've never lived in NOVA/DC/MD, but I'm considering a move there possibly next year.
My fiance and I are both teachers, but are having a difficult time landing full-time, contract, teaching positions here in the suburban public schools.
We both grew up in Pittsburgh and all of our family is here. It's not our preference to leave because of that, but we can't live the way we want to here without full-time teaching jobs. She has loans, so we need 2 salaries coming in to afford life + loans.
When it comes to Pittsburgh, everyone has named the good things... affordability being number one. As others stated, less people here means other things are simple such as getting to events, etc. However, roads here are not built to capacity and it's a pain to get around during construction or rush hours. Public transportation is fine if you live along the T in the South Hills. PAT is ok if you're fine with taking a bus.
I prefer city neighborhoods, but let's be honest...there are only a handful that are really desirable. They are the ones that are recommended to newcomers on this forum day-in and day-out. The rest tend to be old and gritty and the houses end up needing more work than it’s worth. For some, that works, but for others, it doesn’t. Just depends on your preference.
The suburbs in Pittsburgh aren't really what normal people from outside the area consider suburbs. Again, there are some that are desirable (Mt. Lebanon, Sewickley), while others are just "the woods" with housing plans and 2-lane roads built in between. They have no true identity (walkable downtowns, community feel) other than their school district. New housing is expensive in the suburbs here, and you just get a bare minimum Ryan home, again, out in the woods, unless you can spend $500k or more. All the amenities of shopping and dining are in "major" shopping areas that are concentrated to serve West (Robinson / Beaver Valley), East (Monroeville / The Waterfront), South (South Hills / Century III), North (Ross Park / Cranberry).
There are way too many school districts and municipalities here. Every little township or borough seems to have it's own police department and it's inefficient and a waste of money. I like that NOVA does county school districts. Property taxes are high, compared to the cost of housing.
Even if you live in an affluent area, despite what the articles say, Pittsburgh still has a strong yinzer/blue-collar influence. Yes, there are many white-collar professionals here and many with college degrees, but they aren't as noticeable as the yinzer people here are. So many smokers, so many people littering, cussing in public, dressing like slobs, etc.
I like the simplicity and family-feel of Pittsburgh. It’s a large city, but feels like a big town. There are tons of things for families and it’s a great place to grow up, or to raise a family. There is a sense of pride in being from Pittsburgh. A lot of people that live here, grew up here. That can be a good thing or bad thing, depending on what you’re looking for. Also, there are great universities and hospitals right here in our city.
What can you say about DC/NOVA? It’s our nations capital. Things there are supposed to be better. It has a ridiculous cost of living, that I don’t think 2 teachers are going to be able to get used to right away. However, because it’s a growing area, there are tons of jobs. I like the white collar feel, the perfect mix of new and old, the large transportation infrastructure, the constant changing and building and upgrading, the closeness to other major cities (sharing a metro area with Baltimore), the amenities – every type of store/restaurant, museum, hospital/doctor, extracurricular activity, etc.
Each area has it’s pros/cons. It all depends on what works for you. Let's hope that Pittsburgh gets more teaching jobs or that she and I end up loving DC/NOVA.
Just to be clear, there is a difference between a job through a traditional temp agency, and a "permatemp" job through a contractor, which is very common in IT. A temp agency position will be something like "Come work here doing X for 4 months" or "Work here doing X for 6 months and then we have the option to hire you." Permatemp jobs are where you work indefinitely, under no set contract or hiring timeframe. I've also found that the contracting companies that send out permatemps are very unlikely to help you if your permatemp position ends, because it usually means that you got unofficially fired, not that there was no longer work to be done.
Both can lead to employment, but permatemping is a lot more frustrating. Being a "2nd class employee" is the only way to describe it. Companies like Microsoft and HP have been successfully sued for this in the past, because they had hired permatemps for years on end, but those 2nd class employees were denied company benefits. That's a big deal when one of your company benefits is Microsoft and HP stock options.
Temp agency jobs can be indefinite, lasting for years and years too. And it's also possible to be a directly employed permatemp on a company's payroll.
SCR is an accountant. There are temp agencies for accounting. Accountemps comes to mind.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
