Pitt Applies for membership in ACC (Penn: organic, health, dental)

[cry_havoc]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

So how many schools have left the ACC over its history?

I'm not familiar with ACC history. I can think of 2. In the next few years probably 4 more.

[cry_havoc]

Originally Posted by escilade18

How do you feel about Penn State because it is not much further west than UMD is?
On the other hand, Rutgers is undisputedly East Coast and I could understand why it would seem odd for a 'rust-belt' conference to pick up a school that is essentially across the river from NYC

They want to expand their market.

[BrianTH]

Rats, I was going to post Silver's (very helpful) analysis.

Anyway, UConn actually has substantially more fans in that analysis than Maryland, which is almost entirely attributable to it being the #4 team in the NYC market. Also on the NYC Top 10 list are ND (#2), Syracuse (#6), Miami (#7), and BC (#10). So basically the Big Ten and ACC are now going to be dividing up NYC between them.

[escilade18]

Originally Posted by cry_havoc

They want to expand their market.

It makes sense but I can also see why those who have been long time fans of the Big Ten are upset with the new additions. In honesty I wouldn't mind seeing Pitt as part of the Big-10 if things continue to go down with the ACC.
Also since it is around Thanksgiving, I will openly say that I will miss watching the Traditional Pitt-WVU game

[cry_havoc]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Rats, I was going to post Silver's (very helpful) analysis.

Anyway, UConn actually has substantially more fans in that analysis than Maryland, which is almost entirely attributable to it being the #4 team in the NYC market. Also on the NYC Top 10 list are ND (#2), Syracuse (#6), Miami (#7), and BC (#10). So basically the Big Ten and ACC are now going to be dividing up NYC between them.

Both have small fan bases. Big 10 does cover a bigger area now though with New jersey to MD. Does Delaware watch a lot of CFB? They also have good base in eastern PA. ACC still has new england.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by escilade18

How do you feel about Penn State because it is not much further west than UMD is?

Personally, as a native Michigander, I thought the addition of Penn State broke open the seal on the Big Ten no longer being purely Midwestern, and in any event I don't have any more feelings of affinity for the likes of Nebraska than the likes of Rutgers or Maryland.

And in fact there has long been a tradition of some people on the East Coast going to schools like Michigan or Ohio State for college or grad school--that's part of why Michigan and Ohio State are both on NYC's Top 10 list per Nate Silver. So adding Rutgers in particular really makes sense to me (it is sort of the University of New Jersey, and completes the Big Ten's play for a large share of the NYC market).

Maryland, on the other hand, is a bit more of a move in a new direction in my view, not because it is Eastern, but because it is starting to get a bit Southern. Not that I am predicting this, but if the ACC did in fact crack up eventually, it makes me wonder if the Big Ten would not only go after a school like Pitt, but maybe also schools like Virginia Tech or even North Carolina.

[cry_havoc]

Originally Posted by escilade18

It makes sense but I can also see why those who have been long time fans of the Big Ten are upset with the new additions. In honesty I wouldn't mind seeing Pitt as part of the Big-10 if things continue to go down with the ACC.
Also since it is around Thanksgiving, I will openly say that I will miss watching the Traditional Pitt-WVU game

The UMD fans I know aren't happy either. This might be food if UMD can use the new revenue to improve their football. Pitt would be a fit for big 10 but I'm not sure if they need it. Penn state is the PA team and they now have NJ. On the other hand the ACC now really needs Pitt.

The backyard brawl will probably resume as a non conference game.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by cry_havoc

Both have small fan bases.

"Small" is an inherently relative term. According to Silver's analysis, UConn has about a 30.5% larger fan base than Maryland, and again the difference is pretty much entirely attributable to UConn's 150,150 fans in the NYC market. Add in the synergies with the ACC's other NYC teams, and I suspect this will score as a net improvement in their television prospects.

Does Delaware watch a lot of CFB?

My wife is from Delaware, and as I always like to remind her, it is tiny--Brooklyn alone is almost three times the population of Delaware.

So that is what Rutgers is all about for the Big Ten: improving their share of NYC. Delaware is small potatoes compared to that (edit: although for what it is worth, using the CommonCensus interactive map, it looks to me like adding Rutgers and Maryland to Penn State could in fact make the Big Ten the top conference in Delaware. unedit.)

In contrast, Maryland is a little harder to explain, but presumably that is primarily about establishing a toehold in Baltimore and DC.

[cry_havoc]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

"Small" is an inherently relative term. According to Silver's analysis, UConn has about a 30.5% larger fan base than Maryland, and again the difference is pretty much entirely attributable to UConn's 150,150 fans in the NYC market. Add in the synergies with the ACC's other NYC teams, and I suspect this will score as a net improvement in their television prospects.



My wife is from Delaware, and as I always like to remind her, it is tiny--Brooklyn alone is almost three times the population of Delaware.

So that is what Rutgers is all about for the Big Ten: improving their share of NYC. Delaware is small potatoes compared to that.

In contrast, Maryland is a little harder to explain, but presumably that is primarily about establishing a toehold in Baltimore and DC.

Yea but UConn is a small fan base. It is like going from a penny to a nickel when some teams bring in a dollar. Those 150000 extra fans are not going to lead to any increases in revenue.

Also NYC is a strange market because it is full of people from everywhere who might support any school, and a strong professional team precense. Rutgers gives them a big advantage. I wonder if the big 10 plans to expand further and to capture the whole NE.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by cry_havoc

Those 150000 extra fans are not going to lead to any increases in revenue.

Well, at a minimum it means there will be no loss of net fans from Maryland leaving and UConn coming.

But I think the ACC using UConn to make a play for a larger share in NYC is likely to mean more than the 150,000 immediate fans alone would explain, and in fact will likely translate into increased revenue. Keep in mind the way TV revenues work, you don't necessarily have to actually have people watching all the time as long as you can talk your way into getting onto the right system network lineups.

Also NYC is a strange market because it is full of people from everywhere who might support any school, and a strong professional team precense. Rutgers gives them a big advantage.

Rutgers should make the Big Ten the top single conference in NYC, but as Silver explains, and you also allude to, there is plenty of room for other conferences to be competitive, and the ACC should now be the clear #2 in the NYC market.

I wonder if the big 10 plans to expand further and to capture the whole NE.

I doubt it. I think the Northeast is just too fragmented, with too many universities, to be captured by any one conference. It is possible that two conferences, however, could capture most of it, and it looks like those two may end up being the Big 10 and the ACC.