Occupy Pittsburgh to host permitted event (Washington: 2014, neighborhoods, pollution)

[Aqua Teen Carl]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Perhaps because we don't feel like camping out in tents is going to magically cause employers to loosen their pursestrings to create more career opportunities, provide more paid time off, contribute more towards health care premiums, etc.? I've known nothing but financial hardship in my life, so I'm not exactly optimistic that this recession will ever end.

If you don't think that protesting and fighting back equals merely "camping out in tents" with no meaning you may be missing the point of what it is to be an American. If people had this kind of attitude during the country's inception we'd have the Queen on our money right now. Also, have you seen this:

November Fifth Is Bank Transfer Day - The Consumerist

If we don't tell the people holding the purse strings to go screw they will continue screwing us instead. Historically this has been the only way to cause true change. Look at Pittsburgh's own Great Railroad Strike of 1877, the entire city damn near burnt to the ground and only then railroad workers got recognition for how hard they were screwed over.

[ML North]

Originally Posted by Aqua Teen Carl

November Fifth Is Bank Transfer Day - The Consumerist

If we don't tell the people holding the purse strings to go screw they will continue screwing us instead. Historically this has been the only way to cause true change. Look at Pittsburgh's own Great Railroad Strike of 1877, the entire city damn near burnt to the ground and only then railroad workers got recognition for how hard they were screwed over.

About Bank Transfer Day, is anyone (here) actually doing that? I can't imagine that an appreciable amount of people are going to switch from PNC to Eureka.

[Lobick]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Perhaps because we don't feel like camping out in tents is going to magically cause employers to loosen their pursestrings to create more career opportunities, provide more paid time off, contribute more towards health care premiums, etc.? I've known nothing but financial hardship in my life, so I'm not exactly optimistic that this recession will ever end.

You can't let the lack of a perfect outcome be the enemy of a good outcome.

I think that a large segment of the American people know more about the growing inequity in wealth amongst our citizens now than they did before the "occupy" protests began. They have been largely peaceful and have spurred conversation about the form of our current social compact and whether it needs to be tweaked to address these concerns.

Regardless of whether you agree with he protesters or not, I think we owe them a debt of gratitude for raising the issues and having the courage of their convictions to exercise their right to peaceably assemble and give voice to points of view that are not often championed in either the media or within the halls of power, be they corporate or political.

[Aqua Teen Carl]

Originally Posted by ML North

About Bank Transfer Day, is anyone (here) actually doing that? I can't imagine that any appreciable amount of people are going to switch from PNC to Eureka.

You'd be very very surprised.

[ML North]

Originally Posted by Aqua Teen Carl

You'd be very very surprised.

Are you? I'm not, because doing so would be significantly more expensive than my current arrangement.

[Debbie1125]

Originally Posted by Copanut

I always wonder what those protesters do for a living that they can travel across country and spend days in another city, where do they get their money? Wish I had that life style, too bad having to make a living gets in the way.

Not sure what they do for a living but the ones camping out here are costing the taxpayers $112,500 per week for police overtime. The original Occupy Wall Streets have already cost NYC over $1 million.

So if Pittsburgh is financially strapped like most other cities, cuts will probably have to be made to other, more vital services in the budget if the Occupy bunch stays any length of time.

I wonder what's going to happen on Wednesday, as they are expecting heavy rain and high winds where I live.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Love2Golf09

Thank you for that thorough and engaging debate.

You are being sarcastic, but I did indeed include a great deal of substantive information and analysis in my posts, and you are making up excuses to ignore all that.

Edit: Oh, and in many ways Friedman is actually one of the founding fathers of New Keynesianism, particularly if you focus on his academic work and not his popularizing and political efforts. Here is a very nuanced appraisal of Friedman from Paul Krugman, something an open-minded person would be very interested in reading:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/arch...gination=false

Edit #2: And here is a good read on Friedman's influence on Ben Bernanke:

http://reason.com/archives/2009/11/1...es-philosopher

Generally, people who think Monetarism and New Keynesianism are mutually exclusive approaches clearly don't understand how New Keynesianism arose out of the Monetarist critiques of Neo Keynesianism.

Edit #3: Brad DeLong on Friedman, monetarism, and New Keynesianism:

http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/Eco...onetarism.html

All five of the planks of the New Keynesian research program listed above had much of their development inside the twentieth-century monetarist tradition, and all are associated with the name of Milton Friedman. . . . The importance of analyzing policy in an explicit, stochastic context and the limits on stabilization policy that result comes from Friedman (1953a). The importance of thinking not just about what policy would be best in response to this particular shock but what policy rule would be best in general--and would be robust to economists' errors in understanding the structure of the economy and policy makers' errors in implementing policy--comes from Friedman (1960). The proposition that the most policy can aim for is stabilization rather than gap-closing was the principal message of Friedman (1968). We recognize the power of monetary policy as a result of the lines of research that developed from Friedman and Schwartz (1963) and Friedman and Meiselman (1963). And a large chunk of the way that New Keynesians think about aggregate supply saw its development in Friedman's discussions of the "missing equation" in Gordon (1974). Thus a look back at the intellectual battle lines between "Keynesians" and "Monetarists" in the 1960s cannot help but be followed by the recognition that perhaps New Keynesian economics is misnamed. We may not all be Keynesians now, but the influence of Monetarism on how we all think about macroeconomics today has been deep, pervasive, and subtle.

I could go on, but hopefully the point has been made.

[greg42]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Perhaps because we don't feel like camping out in tents is going to magically cause employers to loosen their pursestrings to create more career opportunities, provide more paid time off, contribute more towards health care premiums, etc.? I've known nothing but financial hardship in my life, so I'm not exactly optimistic that this recession will ever end.

I'm not too optimistic either, but you don't have to camp out to realize that the Land of Opportunity doesn't live up to its name. You just have to realize it. Looks like you already do. Don't play that polar opposite game; realize that the truth is in the shades of gray not black and white.

I also realize I say this from a fairly stable position right now, but if anything happens to my current situation (something happens to my employer, etc) then I will be toast.

[Aqua Teen Carl]

Originally Posted by greg42

I also realize I say this from a fairly stable position right now, but if anything happens to my current situation (something happens to my employer, etc) then I will be toast.

Indeed, that's another thing those folks with the "I got mine, screw you" attitude fail to realize. I too am in a good position right now, but I've learned from past experiences (like my health crisis and subsequent firing last year) that it can disappear without a safety net at a moments notice. Are people really ok with working so hard all of their life only to have the rug ripped out from under them at a moment's notice? At what point did "American Uncertainty" become such an accepted way of life?

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by greg42

I also realize I say this from a fairly stable position right now, but if anything happens to my current situation (something happens to my employer, etc) then I will be toast.

That lack of security is how these issues can affect more than just the currently unemployed, and it is a broader economic issue as well. In fact, we very likely have less entrepreneurial activity than we would have with better labor compensation and a stronger safety net, which may sound backwards until you realize that people are more willing to take risks if their Plan B (for use if the risky Plan A doesn't work out) looks better.