Rivers Casino update

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by pman

that's mostly true for the workers I think, for most customers, smoking in places like bars or restaurants is more an annoyance than anything else.

Some people have an allergic reaction to smoke, but even just an annoyance (meaning a negative affect short of a health issue) is a legitimate cause for concern. How to balance those interests is a different matter, but you can't really assert that people have no legitimate interest at all in the air they are breathing.

that said, Philadelphia has a pretty good compromise.

I think that compromise may be in the 2008 state law:

Clean Indoor Air

[pman]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Some people have an allergic reaction to smoke, but even just an annoyance (meaning a negative affect short of a health issue) is a legitimate cause for concern. How to balance those interests is a different matter, but you can't really assert that people have no legitimate interest at all in the air they are breathing.

I think that compromise may be in the 2008 state law:

Clean Indoor Air

I don't know, that's a weak justification. sure, there is some legitimate concern but not really a driving factor. there are legitimate arguments for and against but at the end of the day, it's mainly that it's an annoyance to the largest number of people. if more than half of adults smoked, things would probably still be different. for most, it's mainly an annoyance, particularly places that had good ventilation systems (which, of course, was routinely ignored). anyway, I think it's a good compromise between the smoke everywhere and smoke nowhere nazis

December 14, 2006 (WPVI) -- Philadelphia's smoking ban is now on hold for three weeks.


Mayor John Street signed a revised bill into law on Thursday, allowing smaller bars to apply for permanent exemptions.
That ban goes into effect January 8th, and overrides the current one.
So, until then, smoking is allowed, although it is expected that most restaurants will continue to enforce the ban. Under the new law, outdoor cafes and taverns which make no more than 10-percent of sales off food can apply for exemptions.

Philadelphia Smoking Ban Lifted for 3 Weeks 12/14/06 | 6abc.com

[raubre]

Originally Posted by Aqua Teen Carl

Are they planning on creating some sort of concert venue there? I could have sworn I heard something about Journey playing at the casino or something. Or maybe it was Journey cover band.

I thin k I saw in the City Paper Lee Greenwood will be tehre. Brad Garrett was there recently. A few weeks back while I was there, I asked someone who works there where they have the shows. he told me upstairs in the banquet hall.

Another odd note. I saw the commercial on TV this morning and it said (somethjinig to the effect of) that they were voted the best casino in the area for concerts. WTF? They haven't had any yet!

[WestLibertyAve]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Smoking directly affects the people around the smoker, so smoking in public spaces is a legitimate subject of concern for non-smokers.

A few things..

First, I am a smoker, yet I try to be as considerate as possible because I remember how much I hated it when I didn't smoke and had to breathe in everyone elses' 2nd hand fumes. But if I'm smoking in a place where it's permitted (even if it's an indoor "smoking area" that's adjacent to a non-smoking area), does that make me inconsiderate? I'm sure many of you think it does, and I can see your point, but considering it's one of the few places you're actually allowed to smoke in these days, I'm not going to feel too guilty about it. Blame the casino for allowing it, but don't blame the smoker for taking advantage of it.

SCR has complained in the past about smokers outside of Presby on Lothrop Street creating a haze that fills the sidewalk. There are only a few places where smoking is tolerated on the UPMC campus, and that's one of them. Nothing was stopping him from crossing to the other side of the street for that half block. For someone who walks and runs from Polish Hill to the Strip and downtown on a regular basis, crossing the street shouldn't be too hard. If a truck is parked on the side of the road with deisel exhaust billowing out of the tail pipe, are you going to continue to walk through it?

I'm trying to play Devil's Advocate more so than to convince anyone to change their opinion, but let it be known that not all smokers are poor, uneducated and inconsiderate towards others. Some of us realize our habit is a pain in the a$$ for bystanders and try to blow smoke away/stand downwind/dispose of our butts, but we can't always help which way the wind carries it or who allows smoking on their premises. Personally, I think there are more pressing air quality issues to be concerned about around here than the occasional lungful of second hand cigarette smoke, but that's just me.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by pman

I don't know, that's a weak justification.

I'm not sure what you are referring to. Some people do have a physical reaction to secondhand smoke. Here is the NIH on this subject:

Cigarette Smoke

I'm not saying that justifies any particular public policy, just that it gives those people (and other people who care about those people) a reasonable ground for concern about secondhand smoke in public spaces.

But all this is a bit of an aside, because I think merely finding breathing secondhand smoke "annoying" is a reasonable ground for concern. "Live and let live" isn't a useful bumpersticker once what Person A wants to do (smoke) directly affects what Person B wants to do (breath clean air). At that point, you have to shift to working out a reasonable balance of those interests. And personally, I have no particular problem with PA's law on the subject.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by WestLibertyAve

But if I'm smoking in a place where it's permitted (even if it's an indoor "smoking area" that's adjacent to a non-smoking area), does that make me inconsiderate? I'm sure many of you think it does . . .

Speaking just for myself, I would say it depends on the situation. Specifically, if your smoke isn't actually bothering anyone, I don't see it as being inconsiderate. In contrast if your smoke is bothering other people, then I do think you should refrain from smoking as a courtesy, regardless of whether it is permitted or not.

[Kippy]

I was in a Macy's fitting room today, and I smiled when I saw the built in ashtray in the corner. Smoking while trying on clothes, or even getting dressed, seems like a bad idea, but what do I know?

I remember that they used to allow smoking in the mall in Georgetown, which I found odd; however that was ten years ago.

[Aqua Teen Carl]

Originally Posted by raubre

I thin k I saw in the City Paper Lee Greenwood will be tehre. Brad Garrett was there recently. A few weeks back while I was there, I asked someone who works there where they have the shows. he told me upstairs in the banquet hall.

Weird, is that hall even big enough for sizable concerts? I saw Weezer at the Borgata in Atlantic City a few years ago at their banquet hall and it was strange standing around with 1800 people on carpeted floors. At least they're trying I guess, for folks like me who don't gamble there's nothing else to see or do at the casino.

[gg]

Originally Posted by WestLibertyAve

A few things..

First, I am a smoker, yet I try to be as considerate as possible because I remember how much I hated it when I didn't smoke and had to breathe in everyone elses' 2nd hand fumes. But if I'm smoking in a place where it's permitted (even if it's an indoor "smoking area" that's adjacent to a non-smoking area), does that make me inconsiderate? I'm sure many of you think it does, and I can see your point, but considering it's one of the few places you're actually allowed to smoke in these days, I'm not going to feel too guilty about it. Blame the casino for allowing it, but don't blame the smoker for taking advantage of it.

Good point and thanks for being considerate. I suspect you are pretty rare in that case.

Now, you stopped smoking before. Hope you can stop again. New Year's resolution?