So-called "windfall protection" when they reassess all the homes in Allegheny County (Penn: comparable sales, 2013)

[gg]

I keep reading everyone saying, oh all is great, the "taxing bodies" can't raise the average tax more than 5% when they reassess. What about the year after they reassess? The county just raised their taxes 22%. Seems 22% is much higher than 5%. Why do people think the windfall is some big deal? Seems to me the taxing bodies can raise the taxes as high as they like the year after reassessment. If that is correct, this "windfall" crap means about nothing. Here is an example. Allegheny County just raised their taxes 22%. You are assessed at $100K in the city. You get reassessed at $150K. Oh no big deal right? Um, what about the county tax they just raised 22%? Um, that will be on the $150K, not the $100K! Don't kid yourself. This is not good! You will be assessed higher and if the school raises your millage, which many do every year, it will be at that new assessment.

Sure the "windfall" will protect us. Yeah sure. They already raised the county 22% and after 2013 is over, they can raise millage rates to whatever they want on that new assessed value. What gets me the most is all the rah, rah people just sweep that 22% under the rug, like it never happened. They did that to fool you and hope you focus on the windfall b.s. It is b.s.! It is good for ONE year! Stop falling for this stuff!

[BrianTH]

We've been through the laws and the math a million times now. Briefly:

As for school districts, state law limits them to their annual Index increase, which is a percentage not a millage number, unless they are granted an exemption by the PDE. All that is true in or outside of reassessment years.

In reassessment years, other bodies can take a 5% increase. Outside of reassessment years, other bodies can do what they want--hence why the delay in the reassessment secured the County's increase. But since the Allegheny County millage increase is now a pre-reassessment increase, it will be reduced along with the rest of the millage when the County's millage is reset to be revenue neutral in the reassessment year.

Because all of these laws are in terms of percentages and not millages, and do not in any other way depend on the total size of the tax base or the current millage, the upshot of all this is that:

IN PENNSYLVANIA, A REASSESSMENT DOESN'T CHANGE THE SIZE OF THE PRESENT OR FUTURE TOTAL TAX BURDEN IN A JURISDICTION.

All a reassessment does is shift the allocation of the tax burden between the properties in the relevant jurisdiction. It does not have anything to do with the total amount of the tax burden.

And that should be the end of that, but of course it will not be.

[markson33]

Chris Briem at Nullspace as done a number of posts on the reality of the tax reassessment. His graph on the last reassessment showed that there was truly no windfall.

Read his "But they NEVER ever reset tax rates following a reassessment" post from January 16th.

Nullspace

It is true that a few of the municipalities have applied for, and received, a variance on the 5% rule (only two so far from what I understand).

[scrapp]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

I keep reading everyone saying, oh all is great, the "taxing bodies" can't raise the average tax more than 5% when they reassess. What about the year after they reassess? The county just raised their taxes 22%. Seems 22% is much higher than 5%. Why do people think the windfall is some big deal? Seems to me the taxing bodies can raise the taxes as high as they like the year after reassessment. If that is correct, this "windfall" crap means about nothing. Here is an example. Allegheny County just raised their taxes 22%. You are assessed at $100K in the city. You get reassessed at $150K. Oh no big deal right? Um, what about the county tax they just raised 22%? Um, that will be on the $150K, not the $100K! Don't kid yourself. This is not good! You will be assessed higher and if the school raises your millage, which many do every year, it will be at that new assessment.

Sure the "windfall" will protect us. Yeah sure. They already raised the county 22% and after 2013 is over, they can raise millage rates to whatever they want on that new assessed value. What gets me the most is all the rah, rah people just sweep that 22% under the rug, like it never happened. They did that to fool you and hope you focus on the windfall b.s. It is b.s.! It is good for ONE year! Stop falling for this stuff!

Taxing bodies can always decide to raise their taxes one way or another. This is not new news. Reassessments just rebalance the load.

The ironic thing is that the county would have had to gotten court approval to raise taxes that much this year if the reassessment had gone through (due to the anti-windfall laws). By successfully stonewalling Judge Wettick, the county got a year delay and Rich Fitzgerald and county council avoided having to go to court to get their 22% tax hike in.

Rich Fitzgerald carefully orchestrated this 22% tax hike so that it didn't come up until after his County Executive election campaign was complete and won. He then helped delay the reassessment a year so he could get his 22% tax hike in without having to go to court. And all the time he was doing this, he was spouting off crap about going to jail to prevent the reassessment (didn't happen) and how he was going to protect tax payers (but clearly not from his 22% tax hike). Well, at least we know he is a true politician, eh?

[gg]

Originally Posted by scrapp

Taxing bodies can always decide to raise their taxes one way or another. This is not new news. Reassessments just rebalance the load.

The ironic thing is that the county would have had to gotten court approval to raise taxes that much this year if the reassessment had gone through (due to the anti-windfall laws). By successfully stonewalling Judge Wettick, the county got a year delay and Rich Fitzgerald and county council avoided having to go to court to get their 22% tax hike in.

Rich Fitzgerald carefully orchestrated this 22% tax hike so that it didn't come up until after his County Executive election campaign was complete and won. He then helped delay the reassessment a year so he could get his 22% tax hike in without having to go to court. And all the time he was doing this, he was spouting off crap about going to jail to prevent the reassessment (didn't happen) and how he was going to protect tax payers (but clearly not from his 22% tax hike). Well, at least we know he is a true politician, eh?

True. He and corbett with his state store bs are really similar. Guess they all are.

My point is, this windfall thing is for one year. Means nothing. Doesn't it bother anyone that fitzgerald raised the county tax 22%? That is quite an increase to an area that has some of the highest taxes in the country.

[Bong477]

Taxes will continue to go up without some drastic (and unlikely) change in how the local government operates, the reassessment is irrelevant to that. Again, as others have pointed out it just rebalances the load and makes it theorectically more "fair" which as we know in practice just makes it more "fair" for some and less "fair" for others... all at the cost of tons of our tax money and a lot of our aggravation.

Seriously, do you still not get this?

[gg]

Originally Posted by Bong477

Taxes will continue to go up without some drastic (and unlikely) change in how the local government operates, the reassessment is irrelevant to that. Again, as others have pointed out it just rebalances the load and makes it theorectically more "fair" which as we know in practice just makes it more "fair" for some and less "fair" for others... all at the cost of tons of our tax money and a lot of our aggravation.

Seriously, do you still not get this?

I guess if the reassessment was done professionally, it wouldn't bother me. Every appraiser and realtor uses comparable sales. This reassessment is so wild, it makes no sense.

I get it fine by the way, but keep reading people say, all is great the windfall protection is in place. Um, that lasts for ONE year! Who cares? Doesn't mean the following year they will raise taxes across the board 22% like the county just did and that will be on that new assessed value. I think I get the situation just fine.

[ML North]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

I guess if the reassessment was done professionally, it wouldn't bother me. Every appraiser and realtor uses comparable sales. This reassessment is so wild, it makes no sense.

I get it fine by the way, but keep reading people say, all is great the windfall protection is in place. Um, that lasts for ONE year! Who cares? Doesn't mean the following year they will raise taxes across the board 22% like the county just did and that will be on that new assessed value. I think I get the situation just fine.

This is still incorrect. If your change in assessments (new assessment / old assessment - 1) is near the aggregate change in assessments, then the reassessment process should be relatively meaningless. That is indeed mathematically provable, and it's been done so many times already so I'm not going to waist the time explaining it.

If your change is assessed values is less than the aggregate, then your taxes will go down when the new assessments are used, and if there is a tax hike in subsequent years, you'll come out ahead, regardless of the fact that your assessment went up.

[gallacus]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

I guess if the reassessment was done professionally, it wouldn't bother me. Every appraiser and realtor uses comparable sales. This reassessment is so wild, it makes no sense.

I get it fine by the way, but keep reading people say, all is great the windfall protection is in place. Um, that lasts for ONE year! Who cares? Doesn't mean the following year they will raise taxes across the board 22% like the county just did and that will be on that new assessed value. I think I get the situation just fine.

Sure, but that is totally irrelevant. The millage can go up any year, without regard to a reassessment. This is why everyone, including myself, is so dumbfounded that you keep lumping the two together.

The reassessment is, and will be, revenue neutral for the county. This doesn't mean your taxes will never go up.

[gallacus]

Once again, everyone needs to wake up. You're all idiots falling for the evil government's plans to take over the world. It's all a giant conspiracy, can't you see? Wake up, people!