How does Pittsburgh rank compared to its peer cities? (Allentown: neighborhoods, theatres)

[PreservationPioneer]

I was just thinking about Pittsburgh and how it compares to other cities of similar size. List the cities you have visited that are more or less comparable to Pittsburgh, then rank them based on your overall impression (for the record, some of the MSA's in my list are smaller or larger than Pittsburgh's).

Here is my list (favorite to least favorite):

Buffalo (my favorite so far, much smaller MSA than Pgh, but more intact core neighborhoods)
Baltimore (more walkable, better architecture in my opinion)
Pittsburgh / St Louis (Tie. both awesome old river cities, with lots of similarities)
Indianapolis (nice city, but not as unique as Pittsburgh or St. Louis)
Toledo (dead downtown, but lots of nice architecture)
Detroit (great bones, downtown seemed almost vibrant in certain areas, a few nice neighborhoods, but many were rougher than what I'm used to)
Tulsa (dead downtown, lots of parking lots)
Cleveland (I didn't like Cleveland at all. No personality)
Akron (much smaller than Pittsburgh)

[Evergrey]

Growing up halfway between Pittsburgh and Buffalo... I've always had an interest in Buffalo... but I think you'd be hard pressed to find very many people who would agree with your claim that Buffalo has more "intact core neighborhoods" than Pittsburgh. Buffalo is an archetype of urban blight and desolation... with "urban prairies" on the scale of Detroit and Cleveland. Try taking a trip through the "East Side"... Buffalo's largest side... next time.

This link is an effective illustration of the scale of urban decline Buffalo has experienced:
Buffalo, Then and Now (1902-2011) - Arts & Lifestyle - The Atlantic Cities

[PreservationPioneer]

Oh, I definitely know that Buffalo has seen huge decline. But the areas around downtown were beautiful, at least to me, and I loved that they were walkable to downtown.

You linked to photos of Buffalo then and now. The same could be representative of Pittsburgh, especially when you consider the Point, the Lower Hill, and the Central North Side destruction. Lots of "sacrificing density for scale" was done in Pittsburgh, too. Basically, those photo scenarios are true for any large American city.

[Evergrey]

Allentown is a wonderful neighborhood... and unfortunately Pittsburgh has nothing approaching it when it comes to neighborhoods that are immediately adjacent to Downtown. However, Allentown is a real anomaly in Buffalo... and excuse the snark... but I'm not sure walkability to Downtown Buffalo counts for much these days beyond architecture-gazing.

A single neighborhood does not make a city. Pittsburgh is significantly more "intact", "functional" and "vibrant" than Buffalo.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by alleghenyangel

I was just thinking about Pittsburgh and how it compares to other cities of similar size. List the cities you have visited that are more or less comparable to Pittsburgh, then rank them based on your overall impression (for the record, some of the MSA's in my list are smaller or larger than Pittsburgh's).

Here is my list (favorite to least favorite):

Buffalo (my favorite so far, much smaller MSA than Pgh, but more intact core neighborhoods)
Baltimore (more walkable, better architecture in my opinion)
Pittsburgh / St Louis (Tie. both awesome old river cities, with lots of similarities)
Indianapolis (nice city, but not as unique as Pittsburgh or St. Louis)
Toledo (dead downtown, but lots of nice architecture)
Detroit (great bones, downtown seemed almost vibrant in certain areas, a few nice neighborhoods, but many were rougher than what I'm used to)
Tulsa (dead downtown, lots of parking lots)
Cleveland (I didn't like Cleveland at all. No personality)
Akron (much smaller than Pittsburgh)

Of these, I've only been to Buffalo, Baltimore, and Cleveland, and I would rank them Buffalo < Cleveland < Baltimore < Pittsburgh in that order.

Buffalo seemed almost completely dead. Cleveland is starting to come back quite nicely, but I still think it has a ways to go before catching up with Pittsburgh. I only spent time in the Inner Harbor, so I can't say a whole lot with respect to Baltimore, but based off my "gut feeling" it seemed better than Cleveland, but not quite as good as Pittsburgh.

[Evergrey]

Ok... quick hit thoughts on Angel's list:

Cleveland and Buffalo are actually pretty similar cities... much more so than the oft-compared Cleveland and Pittsburgh... which have very different cityscapes. Cleveland is like a supersized Buffalo. I'd say Cleveland has the better Downtown... Buffalo has the better city neighborhoods (which isn't saying much)... and Cleveland has the MUCH BETTER suburbs (specifically the urban inner-ring suburbs of Coventry Village, Lakewood, etc.) Both fall way short of Pittsburgh.

I love Baltimore... but it has some of the most hellish urban environments in the U.S.... which is a serious drag on the overall quality of the city. There are some fantastic areas immediately adjacent to Downtown and along a corridor north of Downtown.

Toledo, Tulsa, Akron are all sub-million metros and in no way can be considered "peers of Pittsburgh"... they all suck anyways.

Indianapolis has an attractive is somewhat antiseptic Downtown... some monumental architecture there... but there is very little in the way of interesting urban neighborhoods... it's a very bland city... one of my least favorite "major cities".

St. Louis is one of the more interesting Midwestern cities from a built environment perspective... but it has much worse problems with urban rot, crime, etc. I don't feel it comes close to Pittsburgh.

Detroit... I best not say anything...

My rough list of Angel's cities along with a couple other "peers"... I'll add Cincinnati to the list:

Pittsburgh (yes... I'm sure I'll be accused of being a homer... I think Baltimore is pretty competitive, however)
Baltimore
Cincinnati (similar to Pittsburgh in a lot of ways... but quite different in culture)

...

St. Louis

...

Cleveland (the inner ring suburbs and the potential that Downtown could do something some day put it over Buffalo for me)
Buffalo
Indianapolis (in many ways a better city/metro than Cle and Buf... but I just don't like it for aesthetic, cultural and cityscape issues)

...

Detroit (Made me yearn for Cleveland)

[Anonymous939630]

Even though Detroit's metro area is larger than ours, when I was there I just could not get over how "dead" downtown was on Saturday evening. One could complain that Pittsburgh gets pretty "dead" after dark, but in Detroit, the only thing open was Hard Rock Cafe. At least in Pittsburgh residents from downtown, the Hill, etc. are still generally out and about, and many theatres have evening shows.

Overall, though, I do kinda like Detroit -- just wish it weren't so suburbanized and auto-dependent.

[PreservationPioneer]

This is such a subjective discussion, and I think everyone has different opinions of what makes a great city. To me, architecture-gazing is a significant consideration, but it probably isn't to a lot of others, just as I prefer downtown-adjacent neighborhoods to more suburban-like outer neighborhoods with their own business districts. It all comes down to what you like!

[PreservationPioneer]

Originally Posted by jmrun1126

Overall, though, I do kinda like Detroit -- just wish it weren't so suburbanized and auto-dependent.

Same here. There is a counter-culture of urban pioneers who live in the city of Detroit, or at least that's what it seems to me. It seems the norm in Detroit for the middle class is to live in the suburbs.

[Evergrey]

I love architecture-gazing as well... architecture and cityscape are major considerations for me... but I think it is incorrect to claim that neighborhoods with their own business districts are "suburban like". One of the primary strengths of Pittsburgh's urban environment is its multitude of neighborhood business districts... many of which are quite vital and functional. There is nothing "suburban like" about Lawrenceville, South Side, Oakland, Deutschtown, Bloomfield, etc.