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Old 12-19-2015, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Currently living in Reddit
5,652 posts, read 6,995,475 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erieguy View Post
Curious as to see those 38% numbers around the league. Last stat I saw Bucs were 27th in the league in payroll % spending.

Now if you still think the Bucs don't place more emphasis on saving $$$ rather than winning after this ridiculous offseason, you're certainly kidding yourself.
Here's an interesting analysis of what teams spend vs. what they "should" spend based on attendance and franchise valuation. I've noted over the past couple of years that the Bucs could spend $10-$15 mill more and this analysis agrees with that.

That said, the difference between this year and the last 3-4 years is that while NH went after affordable talent, it was talent that was usually (outside of AJ) still in their prime with a recent history of having actually been good. This winter it seems he's turned into Dave Littlefield and is signing every old and/or washed-up bum he can find, a la the Joe Randa/Jeromy Burnitz days. Nobody can convince me that spending $5 million on Vogelsong and SeanRod is better than having spent the extra $5 million to retain JA Happ.

Very little of what NH is doing this offseason makes sense for a competing team. And I don't believe it's all - or even mostly - Nutting. IMO, this is NH's ego at work.
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Old 12-19-2015, 07:42 PM
 
Location: Downtown Cranberry Twp.
41,016 posts, read 18,246,752 times
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Looks like a whole lot of info rather than just posting the numbers, but Ummm, yeah, the Bucs could and should be spending at least $10-15m more. That's obvious. Nice to see it admitted, however.

I called this before it started happening this offseason. "Future, prospects, etc..."

Bucs put 3 winning seasons together on the cheap, raised tix prices, set attendance records, made a fortune, and now are going to dump $$$, talk about the future and prospects, keep paying down the debt, and fans will be satisfied to go back to seeing .500 ball and accept it as a success.

Keep buying into the Nutting way and blaming "NH". One is just as bad as the other. This offseason is just proving what most of us already knew about ownership and Bucs brass putting $$$ before winning.

I only go to a Bucs game when free tix are given, and never patronize PNC Park, except for parking. Enabling the organization the way it does business will keep this trend of money grabbing going for as long as Nutting owns the team.

Last edited by erieguy; 12-19-2015 at 08:23 PM..
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Old 12-21-2015, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Downtown Cranberry Twp.
41,016 posts, read 18,246,752 times
Reputation: 8528
Detroit Tigers trade Kyle Lobstein to Pittsburgh Pirates for cash considerations | MLive.com

Looks like the rotation is ready to go.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/p...s/201512200087

They'll never get Cutch to sign another contract, here.
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Old 12-21-2015, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Just East of the Southern Portion of the Western Part of PA
1,272 posts, read 3,710,826 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erieguy View Post
Lobstein is a AAA Indy pitcher at best and will likely not make the big league club. The rotation is far from "ready to go" and is pretty much a hot mess. Cole, Liriano, and some bums. They still need to add a significant arm.
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Old 12-21-2015, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Downtown Cranberry Twp.
41,016 posts, read 18,246,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny C View Post
Lobstein is a AAA Indy pitcher at best and will likely not make the big league club. The rotation is far from "ready to go" and is pretty much a hot mess. Cole, Liriano, and some bums. They still need to add a significant arm.
"Ready to go" = enough warm bodies to fill a rotation.

The present team isn't ready to go anywhere competitive.
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Old 12-21-2015, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Currently living in Reddit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erieguy View Post
Lobstein is probably AAA depth at best, but I wouldn't extend Cutch.

He'll be 32 when his team option year ends (2018). Most I would do is tack on two years for $22-23 mill per. Beyond that you're paying for what he was, not what he will be. And we can be pretty much assured he'll be asking something like 7 years at $175 or more. Somebody will pay that. It would be incredibly stupid for the Bucs to be that team.
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Old 12-21-2015, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Downtown Cranberry Twp.
41,016 posts, read 18,246,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sskink View Post
Lobstein is probably AAA depth at best, but I wouldn't extend Cutch.

He'll be 32 when his team option year ends (2018). Most I would do is tack on two years for $22-23 mill per. Beyond that you're paying for what he was, not what he will be. And we can be pretty much assured he'll be asking something like 7 years at $175 or more. Somebody will pay that. It would be incredibly stupid for the Bucs to be that team.
Lobstein is a warm arm that may be here now or later.

"What he was and not what he will be". Spoken like DK.

They're not going to extend him. No way in Bob Nuttings lifetime is he paying $22-23m a year to anyone, and no way Cutch is going to stay here for another contract. He'll go get paid or go somewhere to win, or both.
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Old 12-21-2015, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
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The window for the Bucco's is closing. Cutch will not resign here and I don't blame him. This team has taken a major step backwards.
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Old 12-21-2015, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Downtown Cranberry Twp.
41,016 posts, read 18,246,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Copanut View Post
The window for the Bucco's is closing. Cutch will not resign here and I don't blame him. This team has taken a major step backwards.
Yup^^^^^. Pretty sad since it's not necessary to make all these ridiculous moves.

They definitely had opportunity and their best opportunity to win a championship. Be a long time before the opportunity again presents itself. I can't imagine anyone of significance signing a big long term deal unless it's a big fish small pond scenario. Guys want paid or want to win or both and you can't blame them. That's not happening, here.

Sooooo reminds me of 90, 91, 92 and "Muck the Fets". Bonds and Cutch-type players don't come around very often. Long time since then. Hope that lull never returns.

Last edited by erieguy; 12-21-2015 at 08:08 PM..
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Old 12-21-2015, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Currently living in Reddit
5,652 posts, read 6,995,475 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erieguy View Post
"What he was and not what he will be". Spoken like DK.
Haven't read DK in months. This is simple common sense. You pay for production. You don't overpay for reputation. That's how you get into situations where a Votto or Mauer restricts your ability to put a decent team around those guys.

You want big market baseball, move to a big market.
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